Ever since I saw Iggy's snub nose N frame project gun, I've had an itch to build something similar. I have one 3 1/2" N frame, a 27-2, which I've posted before, and I like the size, but I have had a hankering to put together a big bore pre war gun. On the other hand, I don't want to ruin some priceless, rare, collectable heirloom..... What I want to build is something that I won't be worried about shooting and packing around the woods, that is practical, and preferably chambered in a big bore caliber that I already handload for, with a barrel no shorter than 3 1/2", and no longer than 4". Since then I've seen some other big frame snubs that have added to the mental picture I've been building up of where I'd like this project to go...Wyatt Burp and Lee's Landing Billy's recent posts come to mind, being, as it were, at opposite ends of the exterior finish spectrum....

Here's Iggy's gun, which was my initial inspiration (with permission):



Well, another thought that occurred to me was that if I could find a suitable gun in fair outside condition, and find an extra barrel, I could modify the extra barrel, and keep the original to put back on the gun if I ever wanted to revert to its original configuration...

So, that's where I was a few weeks ago, when I saw a 1937 Brazilian.45 on GB for a pretty reasonable figure. Description said that the bore was in pretty good condition, and the photos looked to be just about what I was hoping to find, so I bid on it and it arrived a little over a week ago.

Here's what it looked like when I took it out of the box, (by the way, Roy says that this one shipped in July of 1938), before I did anything with it... Notice that the sideplate screws are boogered up, so I suppose that someone has been inside of it...



Not wanting to work the action to much in case it was crudded up with old, dried out lubricant inside, I opened it up, and here's what I found:



As an old police Armorer, and a guy who has several dozen hand ejectors presently, and have had many others in the past... This is the most hardest, solidified, dried out lubricant that I've ever seen....but in a way, I saw that as a plus: no one had been inside of this gun for a long time, maybe decades... So I saw my first job as gently getting this stuff out. So I disassembled the revolver and put the individual parts and the frame to soak, and ever day or so I would brush out the frame, and each of the parts with a toothbrush with the bristles cut back (Thanks, Hondo44!).

Well, it took a good week to soak and brush all of the really hard crud out of all of the nooks and crannies, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that some of the parts looked like brand new...all of the springs seem to be just as strong as they were when the gun was made almost 80 years ago. No rust on the inside of the gun at all, but a couple of pits on the outside, strictly cosmetic in nature...noticed that the recoil shield has no wear indicative of being carried and shot...no cartridge head "ghost" wear... Although the gun seems to have been beat around some,and has some handling nicks, it seems really nice inside. Including the chambers and bore!!

Over the course of that week, I tried different solvents: kerosine, acetone, Kroill, and elbow grease, and finally got all of that crud scrubbed out. In the meantime, a couple of items that I had purchased came in. First, from eBay, an extra barrel, unnumbered, for a 1917, that someone had ground off the "United States Property" stamp from underneath, and has a couple of dings on the outside, but the bore is mint!! It's shown at the top of the photo...I won't feel to bad modifying this one. Also from eBay, a Tylers T Grip....And then, like it was meant to be, one of the forum members, "bigmtnman" had a nice set of elk antler stocks for sale. I've put them in the picture at the lower right (by the way, he does good work and he is a good guy to deal with). After I cleaned everything up, I covered everything with oil (the specks you see are just lint from a Q Tip), and let it sit overnight. That's when I took this photo:



One more picture for tonight, just to show the bore on the original barrel. This is the one that I want to keep intact...numbers to the gun, and although the importer has very discreetly stamped their mark over the serial number, the serial number is still legible. Really nice rifling, and the little speck you see is just lint:



Well, that's all for right now, but I just wanted to share the beginnings of one of my "gun projects". I'll be back with additional posts to keep you up to date with how things are going.

Thanks to all who were inspirations for this project!! And thanks to everyone for letting me share!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH, this is gonna be GOOD!!!!!

I would love to do something like that, too. I just need to find a suitable gun and the $ to trick it out. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

Ok I'm hooked bring on the pictures.

I got the popcorn and beer all set up.. Looking forward to watching the progress.

With all the big holes in the barrel and cylinder of that gun, you will be surprised how light it is for carry.

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Eccentric old coot

Woo Hoo! another big bore belly gun coming to life!

I can't wait to see what you come up with.

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On the Oak Savannah

I think I am about done with project guns, but of course as soon as you say something like that...

Anyway, I'll be interested in how your project turns out. Keep us well informed. And I agree with Iggy. That gun with those big holes and skinny, non-ribbed barrel shouldn't weigh too much - but it will be BIG! Good luck!

Stag and Tyler Ts.......ya killin me!!!

Hey Les,

Lovin' your project.

My last 1917 proj was for a friend.

1917 Barrel Conversion Project

He got this WW I 1917 Army pretty cheap; all original except it had a cut down .455 Mk II barrel (bore dimensions all wrong for 45 ACP.)
Here it is converted to a barrel w/shroud the way the factory should have made them pre war, (at least after the military production), the same as the 1st and 3rd models 44 Military and 38/44 HD.



Now it has a factory pre war style 4" non-ribbed, tapered, and shrouded barrel from a Stainless Mtn Gun target barrel from which I removed the rib, fully rounded, and blued. I should have finished the barrel with a finer grit to better match the original WW I blue. Next time I have stainless blued I’ll know to match the polish better. Mushroom knob replaced with proper vintage shrouded extractor rod with ‘barrel’ style knob.

Made a half penny front sight blade replacement (pinned into base). It’s a full 1/10” wide and the rear sight notch has been opened up to target sight notch width of .124”:





Should have been a simple barrel change if I could have found a Classic or Thunder Ranch 1917 Model barrel. But all I could acquire is a SS tapered target barrel for a 45 Colt Mtn Gun:

Mountain guns

Notice late model shrouds have the shroud bulge on the right side that extends all the way to the front. So that was another contour I had to add to match the pre war (and earlier post war) contour shown here on a pre Model 26:





I milled off the rib and milled down the integral front sight base to match the pre war integral fixed sight base:





Here is the rough milled barrel mounted on the gun:

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Wow, Jim!!

That's a pretty snazzy conversion!! Thanks for sharing with me!! One of the ideas that had been floating around in my head is the point that Iggy makes about the weight of the big bores. Even with the full length barrel, the 1937, and its parent 1917 are pretty light... I love the look of the shrouded barrels, and one day would love to find a four inch 44 3rd model with the coin front sight. (I would be tempted to buy one of the Thunder Ranch models, but I don't care for the flashy gold logo, and I think they have an Internal Lock, and that is a deal breaker for me.

Anyway, I'm hoping to keep the weight down, and converting the 1917 barrel seems one part of the equation. Not to mention that many of the operations that you have done are way above my technical ability!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Cool project, keep us updated..........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

You've got a great start, Les. You know we will all be watching and waiting for updates along the way. What you are planning is something I've long thought about doing. Iggy's very nice revolver sure made that itch need scratching, and now you've made it worse!

I've got a nice 1917 that somebody decided needed nickel plating somewhere along the way. They did a good job, too good to mess with, but I'd rather start with a parked model anyway. My copy shoots great but it just doesn't seem to be a good one to start this kind of project with. I'd be tickled with the barrel length to be just about the same as Iggy's. I'm sure it could be done nicely but it would need to have at least the barrel re-nickeled and I'm just not a fan of nickel plating. Guess the whole thing could be stripped of the nickel and re-parked.

Anyhow, you've got me thinkin' about it again. I wish you the best of luck with your project. It's a grand plan! Besides, I have very serious doubts that Iggy's fine example will ever be for sale in his lifetime!!!!!

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So long ... Ken

I have seen several 1917s in nickel with gold plated hammer and trigger. I wonder who thought that was a good look.

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

You guys are going to cause me to part with some hard money. I've one of the 1937 Brazilian revolvers and although the bore isn't the best it does shoot decently and I have a new old stock original barrel for it. Will most likely will have to get it heavily bead blasted as it has pitting all over. As for the fronk sight maybe SDM will make me up one of their gold beaded front sight inserts. Has a set of smooth grips on it. We'll see. Frank

Looking forward to what will be a very nice project Les-press on!!

dixie-

Remember what Gen. Patton said about pearl grips? That's a clue as to who likes nickel guns and gold hammers and triggers. And big Cadillacs.

If I said more, it'd probably get a moderator after me on this board...

If I was rich and got a Brazilian M-1917, I'd just restore it to original condition and load .45 AR brass with 250 grain Keith bullets to about 875 FPS. Would use Magna grips, maybe with Tyler adaptor.

I don't like the concept of large frame revolvers with short barrels. I think Chic Gaylord expressed my feelings well.

The closest I can come along these lines is a M-1950 Military or Target .44 with four-inch barrel.

But I wish Les B. luck in achieving his goal. The resulting gun should be interesting to see. Les, what velocity with which load are you going to try for?

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here and say that you should leave that gun as it is. Brazilians that nice don't come along very often. I'd suggest finding one that's already been Bubba'd and needs rescuing, instead of being the Bubba.

Some really nice shooters here guys. I really like big-bore snubbys.
I have a 1917 with 625-10 barrel at the refinishers now but here's 2 others that I keep around.


ETA:
First is early 4 digit 1917, second is Brazilian (first contract 1937).
The 1917-10 (1917 w/ 625-10 barrel) should be ready any time.

Jack,

Very nice. The hammer mod on the first one is unique. Probably really improves the thumb purchase on the pre war hammers which can be a little hard to cock for SA shooting.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks Jim. Yes, that hammer is a little different but does feel good although I seldom shoot it SA.
I'm dealing on a 1917 snub similar in looks and condition to the first one above but is a commercial model that someone cut down.

Shark, that sounds like me...I could lose weight if I would eat less and exercise.

One of my projects is this 1917 snub. When the weather permits (colder), I'm going to bead blast and rust blue it.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Every time I see this Patton line I always think..Would he have had the nerve to say that to Bill Tilghman, Lone Wolf Gonzales, Walt Walsh, Jerry Campbell, Jelly Brice, and many others who did their own fighting? There was a piece a while back in The Rifleman about Patton having a .32 slip down his pants leg at a dinner party. It went off when it hit the floor and old Georgie jumped out the window!
My Father was with Patton on his famous march. He always said the line in the movie that was the truest was..old blood and guts, yeah, other people's blood and guts.
Les, sorry for the high jack but it gauls me when people have opinions about other people choices. They had it done because they liked it. I have NEVER made any purchase in life thinking whether somebody else would like it. Also, if they were happy, why are you so worked up that you have to try to give them a curve ball insult. All of you, enjoy your projects as see fit and be joyous of the other fellow's happiness.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There's a lot of us ol boys that like 'em short snout'd and fancy stocked and use 'em everyday.

And right on the other hand, there's a few that only parrot what they read/heard that
someone else said or something was written in some ol book somewhere.


Les,
I personally think that's a capital ideal !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave

That ol war horse in the OP......That rascal will shoot !!!!

I know, cause I've shot 'er.......



.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

He oughta know, he's the one that cut down the Brazilian barrel I scarfed off of GB. He cut it down and tuned that front sight to where it shoots right where it's aimed. If I remember right, that group of shots was his tunin' the sights. First shot high and right, second shot a little closer, the group at the original and final point of aim.

Now my gittin' it pointed right is another matter. Dave also did that holster pictured with it above..

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Eccentric old coot

I already have a big bore snubby, and no modifications needed. However, the larger holes don't really do much to help with weight though.

Good luck with your projects guys!

Given the fun with my eyes, I need really visible sights. What comes to mind is fitting one of the Cylinder and Slide fixed rear sights, opened to about .156", and a standard sized XS tritium dot. A 3" barrel, roughly, and chambered in 45ACP or converted to 45Colt, loaded with hefty Keith bullets at a modest velocity, one would have a good packing revolver.

That's more work on a 1917, and maybe easier on an M28. Starting with a gun that's kind of beat up or modified already would probably keep me off the collectors' voodoo list.

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NHI, 10-8.

Here's mine with 625-10 parts.
1917a.jpg

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Chris, That flat latch is a nice touch!

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On the Oak Savannah

Well, as soon as I saw the title and first post of this thread, I knew there would be some pushback from the folks who think every gun that ever left Springfield was built to the perfect specifications and should never be altered and from those who have their own well developed sense of propriety for what certain classes of guns should look like.

I'm beginning to think there should be a new page on this forum for the likes of les.b, keith44spl, Hondo44, Iggy, Wiregrassguy and myself (among others) where we can get together and discuss the sacrilege of taking tools that were made by S&W at some time in the past and making them fit our needs and desires better than they originally did. Sometimes the results may have only limited popularity like the full on Fitz Specials, and sometimes they are somebody's vision of a variant Smith should have made but never did (or didn't do enough of) like Keith44spl's 44 Spl RM or my Project 616. All of the purists could avoid damage to their psyches by blocking their own access to those pages!

Froggie

PS Just in case you didn't figure it out, I like les.b's project... I like it a lot. Also, I am happy he's allowing us to follow along vicariously with the good pictures he's posting.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the thoughtfulness, insight, and interest that you have put into your comments. Well, after I got the gun cleaned up at the end of the first post above, I thought I'd put it back together and make sure that it worked. Dried off the internal parts that I had covered with oil, lightly wiped each, reassembled the gun, and then very sparingly relubed it. For now, I wanted to see how it feels with the new stag grips and Tyler T Grip fitted, and also wanted to make sure that the grips fitted correctly. Here it is put back together and ready for a function test:



I like the feel of the gun. The Stags are just ever so slightly oversized, and I will spend some time final fitting them. I plan to have the original stocks, which are numbered to the gun restored, and kept with the gun, along with the original barrel, once I have the replacement barrel modify field and fitted to the gum.

There is a little hitch in the double action trigger pull that I will address soon, but the single action pull is great, and breaks cleanly. No hint of push off, cylinder play, end shake, or any of the other maladies that can plague the aging hand ejector. Seems nice and tight, and ready to see whether it will shoot!

September 28th, 2017... Using half a dozen ordinary .45 ACP cartridges, I function tested the gun at 15 yards. Not very spectacular marksmanship, but I was mainly interested in whether the gun would shoot, and roughly where it would shoot. But all told, I'm pretty happy with the results. If I get a chance, I will put it through a little more formal test, and I have a box of my 45 Auto Rim reloads that I put together for my Colt 1917 that I will run through it as well. But here's what it did a couple of days ago:



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I sure hope so, Billy!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Thanks, Dave... I appreciate the encouragement...especially coming from the guy responsible for the gun that served as my original inspiration!

Best Regards,mLes

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Well just dadgum! Now I've got to track down an N-frame for another project... like I need another 45... but then again what does NEED have to do with it.

Froggie

Froggie:

Thanks for your interest and support!! I have long enjoyed your posts about I frames and .32s, which happen to be one of my loves as well.

I think that some of the folks above who are aghast at my plans to create a snub nosed N frame, maybe haven't read all of the details... I am only planning to shorten a spare 1917 barrel, which is unnumbered, and has already been worked on by someones grinding the "United States Property" marks off of the bottom. I plan to keep the original stocks and barrel, so the gun could be put back in original condition with just a few hours work. So I'm not really destroying an original gun, anyway.

But I feel like the majority of posters above are supportive of the idea. This evening, I've been working on tuning up the long neglected internals, which still need a little tweaking.

I'll keep you guys posted....

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Chris, I wish I had a bigger LIKE button. That is cool!! It would fit perfect in my Bib Overalls.

Don't want to hijack the thread here, but keith44spl is one of the very best at making the guns that Smith never made but should have, and he builds them out of guns and/or parts that are way beyond collectible. For example, this one is a Colt 45 with a RM front sight, ivory bead and half-adjustable rear sight with Keith Brown grips. Beautiful work! Smith didn't make it but they should have. This is my idea of a big bore, short barreled revolver! I see nothing wrong with taking a fairly hammered old gun and making it into a work of art. I think les.b's project is terrific and I look forward to seeing the end result.

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Everybody could shoot

I like all the shortly 45 shown. Many don't like.net modified guns, but these are great examples of what's possible with project guns. Once again here is.my 45 snub

Attached Images

KIMG0005.jpg (48.8 KB, 312 views)

Les, there was enough dirt under that side plate to grow a couple of 'mater plants!

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Didn't Fitzgerald at Colt wear snub New Service guns?

Those who have Chic Gaylord's, Handgunner's Guide (1960) can see Det. Ganio's .45 NS snub. Not a M-1917;it was in .45 Colt. The Colt doesn't have a front cylinder lock, so he got the barrel pretty short.

Tom:

I gave you a "like" even though you don't agree with me on my latest project. I realize that everyone doesn't always agree on everything, and I actually appreciate honest criticism, especially when it is presented in a sprit of constructive comment.

I agree that this is a fairly nice specimen of the 1937 Brazilian, and I'm aware that at the most there were only about 25,000 of them made...which is why I'm not really "Bubbaing" it. I am actually only planning on converting a 1917 barrel which is not numbered to a gun at all, and has already been spoiled for a collector piece by having the property marking ground off of the bottom of the barrel. I plan to keep the original numbered to the gun barrel with the original numbered to the gun stocks, and may even have the stocks cleaned up and restored. Changing out a barrel is a relatively simple affair, and is not irreversible, so that I can change back to the original configuration at any time.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Tex,

I seem to remember that Fitz had leather front pockets sewn into his pants, and he kept a brace of snub New Service snubs in each, and he would startle visitors to his workshop by fast drawing and presenting them!! I may have even seen a photo somewhere of this setup.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

If old Fitz was big enough or tough enough to carry two New Service revolvers in his front pockets, he din't need a gun. He could have gone bear huntin' with a switch.

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Eccentric old coot

I don’t have much to add except for: CHOP IT!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

something like this




Charlie

Yep, I like to virtually "sit" at his virtual "feet" and just marvel at the ideas that percolate through his fertile mind then actually come to fruition in steel and wood. Even though he works way above my pay grade, some of his ideas translate to applications we mere mortals can aspire to.

One idea I've long had on my "Back Burner List" is a S&W 1917 US or a 1937 Brazilian with King-type sight upgrades (with or without rib - the jury is still out) and checkered back strap along the lines of the pre-War Colt target revolvers. Finish it off with a nice set of Roper-style grips or maybe service-type stags, and it should be ready for the next Bar-B-Que!

Froggie

I'm still skeptical. Maybe the original barrel and stocks will get put back on the gun someday, maybe not. If you don't do it, who will? And if you are going to someday, then why not leave it as is? When will you decide, "Nope, don't want a snubby any more"?

This is the kind of gun that should be the basis for this project. You wouldn't even need to replace the barrel, just trim the one on it. Certainly there are others out there in similar shape.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/682875686




Hope you don't think I'm one of those guys, as I have had my own custom S&W projects done.
The seldom-seen 8-3/8" .44 Special


The seldom-seen 8-3/8" K32


But ya know, I started off with guns that were sad cases to begin with, not ones that were already very nice in their own right. For instance I could have had the 8-3/8 .44 Special made by taking one of my two 6" Model 24-3 revolvers and having it rebarreled. I'd still have the original barrel "if I ever wanted to change it back". Which likely would never happen.

Instead I gave new life to a gray old Model 28-2 that otherwise would just get more and more sad looking. Kind of like what keith44spl does on a regular basis.

My point exactly. les.b, like I said, find one that's already been Bubba'd. They are out there and need your help.

The m1937 for the Brazilian contract I have makes Les B'S 1917 look like a minty handgun. Very heavy pitting that has been blued over, large deep pits in the grip frame which get scrubbed out wetther they need it to keep the rust away. I do have a NOW1917 barrel hiding around here so that won't be a problem. Sights both front and rear I'm still trying to figgure out and eventually what the finish will be. Propably get it bead blasted and then blues. Frank

For a "one of" custom creation I can't ever think of why you would start with a hammered old gun and then put all the money, thought, time, effort, hopes, dreams, into it. I would start with the best example I could to get the best finished product I could.

Stu

Stu,
In my neck of the woods, once upon a time a person could pickup an old N frame HE (namely 1917's) pretty cheap. Some had decent barrels and some didn't but regardless, replacements were sometimes hard to come buy so finding a replacement was in order. Hence, the 1917 with 625-10 barrel was created. At least that's what I used. Same for a 3.5"-4" so chopping a barrel and resetting the sight was a sometimes common thing and breathed new life back into these old guns.