Hand ejector
SN 85680
38 S & W Special
4" Bbl
Fixed sights

I recently "inherited" this early 1905 that belonged to my friend's dad who was a policeman in MS after the war for a couple of years. It's in well-used and cosmetically "poor" (scattered light pits, scuffs, dings, etc.) but mechanically good condition, bore, too. Left side of the barrel has the "38 S & W Special, below it "U.S. Service CTG'S". SN is 85680, 4" bbl, sq. butt with actually not bad grips. I have looked till I am blue in the face for a post that addresses it and its kind to no avail - could anyone give me an idea of its manufacture date and all that? I have a few old Smiths, but this is the earliest I have come into close contact with, and I am wondering if I could have it restored by S&W, or Doug Turnbull. My friend has had 3 strokes in the past couple of months, and is currently paralyzed on his left side and his speech is very poor. He didn't want to a few years ago when I suggested it, but I will discuss it with him again (as much as he can). I would really like to do it as a tribute to his dad: crusty old WW2 cannon cocker, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, battlefield commission, all that, and retired LTC - irascible old guy who died several years ago...
Thanks in advance.

Close serial numbers were shipped in the fall of 1906. Many M&Ps of this time period still had the older barrels, as used in the Military Model of 1899, where the calibers were stamped with both the .38 S&W Special and the "U.S. Service CTG" stamps to indicated the military service round of .38 Long Colt caliber was interchangeable with the .38 S&W Special round. The factory didn't want to stamp the name "Colt" anywhere on a S&W, so they used the U.S.Service CTG instead. S&W does not do any restorations on older S&Ws. Turnbull might, but he is not a lover of S&Ws and is very expensive. Collector's are pretty well divided on their opinion on restoring older S&Ws, like yours. It's a personal decision - no value is added to a gun like this gun by restoration attempts, no matter how nice it may come out. My vote would be to leave it alone, as is. and admire the slings & arrows of a lifetime of service. Ed.

I would clean up and put a protective wax on it. As is it shows all the years and battle scars of father. It is a piece of history.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Without a picture to go by and no letter prefix to the SN, SN 85680 would indicate a Model of 1905 which shipped around 1906-07. Not one I would consider spending anywhere near what it would cost to get a good refinish job. Turnbull does not work on S&Ws, and even if he did, it would probably cost you about 10X its current value.

I defer to knowledgeable consensus - it will stay as is, and I will keep it for my friend, now and later. I will tell him I have it, and I will keep it as he wanted it. I'd bury it with him but he wants to be cremated, and for me to spread his ashes (stealth mode) over his parents graves in the Ft. Mitchell, AL, national cemetery. He was a Special Forces officer, but the Guard (D Co, 20th Gp), so he is ineligible for burial in a national cemetery. I won't get off on that, but it is a crime to deny Guardsmen burial there. But - thanks for your input.
Regards,
George J.

Your notes on information found here should include the "official" name of the revolver. It is 38 Hand Ejector, Military & Police Model 1905, 1st or 2nd Change. The easiest way to check which model you have is to look at the rebound slide for a patent date Feb. 6, 1906. The picture below is from a 2nd Change with the patent date visible. You need to carefully remove the screws holding the sideplate and tap the frame with the stocks removed, using a rubber hammer to force the sideplate to drop out. It is a good idea to do this because it is likely the interior parts are dry and unprotected, so a good oil or spray lubricant like Barricade will help protect the mechanism. The factory stocks would have been standard walnut diamond service stocks and had a concave round top like the photo shown below.

Attached Images

	Stocks.jpg (103.2 KB, 20 views)
	Patent Date.jpg (75.1 KB, 26 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The SN puts it in the middle of the Model of 1905 First Change range. But keep in mind that S&W NEVER used the "change" terminology. That is pure collector speak. To S&W yours would have been a Model of 1905. Much later (in 1958) S&W went to model numbering, such as the Model 10. It did then use the "dash" method to indicate various internal and external engineering changes, such as 10-1, 10-4, etc.

If you really want to get technical about the name, the company called these revolvers 38 Military, and added either Model 1902 or Model 1905 back in the day. Collectors routinely and properly use the modern terminology to distinguish major and sometimes minor changes in design.

The 2nd Change designation was intended to note several minor changes in manufacture. Those changes included removing an internal key slot in the rebound slide and adding a patent date, adding a rib to the hammer, changing the extractor guide system by eliminating rounded end cuts in the extractor arms, and added guide dowels driven into the cylinder. I have a 100,007 38 HE with all but one of the improvements of the 2nd Change, so the number found in Roy's book is not accurate and the changes most likely happened in late 1906 to early 1907. My 38 HE was shipped in early 1907, while the OPs gun was probably shipped a few months earlier, around October/November, 1906. Today, collectors understand the Change designation system and use it to properly ID the various changes made throughout the 38 HE early years.

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Gary
SWCA 2515