S&W first model 1896

battle · #1 10-06-2017, 01:09 PM

I'm for sure the ejector rod tip shouldn't look like this?

Anyone have a spare tip or ejector rod?

JP@AK · #2 10-06-2017, 01:24 PM

The extractor rod knob is commonly missing from these early hand ejectors. Sad but true. This has been discussed on the Forum previously and it seems unlikely someone will have a spare, but who knows? You might get lucky!

I've seen some talk that others have had to get a machinist to manufacture a knob. Perhaps that is an option you could pursue.

It appears that someone has installed a hex head screw in place of the threaded knob. I suspect this has buggered the threads, which would make it difficult to attach a proper knob, even if you could find one.

Absalom · #3 10-06-2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battle

I'm for sure the ejector rod tip shouldn't look like this?

....

They are indeed missing on a lot of these. I once owned one that had a newish-looking replacement installed when I got it; never got around to “aging” it properly (see picture). So they do seem to exist as a part, but I’ve never come across one on offer by itself.

Hondo44 · #4 10-06-2017, 04:14 PM

Looks like a very nice example.

I would relabel your post to something like; Need source for Model 1896 32 HE extractor rod knob.

And/or adv in the Classified section of this forum.

Check out this thread for correct knob and attachment screw:
32 HE 1st Model Parts Source
See Post #9

glowe · #5 10-06-2017, 04:45 PM

I have NEVER found one for sale anywhere for this model. One of our members had several knobs made for an 1899 and they sold quickly, but don't work on the 1896. I have heard that Jack First actually makes replacement parts for a few S&W models, but they have not made any 1896 knobs. I still believe someone would be able to sell a lot of them if they had a CNC lathe.

DWalt · #6 10-06-2017, 05:10 PM

Most any machinist should be able to make a reasonable facsimile, but would need the proper threading die. I have no idea what the thread size is on the 1896 knob, probably nothing common.

battle · #7 10-06-2017, 08:04 PM

I could have it duplicated if I had one for pattern.

Hondo44 · #8 10-07-2017, 04:42 AM

Today I spoke with the proprietor of Simmons Custom Services. They specialize in making old gun screws of all types. I bought some for a Winchester. They are excellent quality, blued, and worked perfectly.

They'd be happy to make reproduction 1896 extractor knobs and screws. They'll be a lot cheaper made in volume which he'll do and stock them.

All I need is dimensions to send him. I don't own an 1896 either.

Is someone who does own one willing to share those dimensions? And I'll take care of the rest.

Wiregrassguy · #9 10-07-2017, 09:24 AM

I recall that a forum member had some of the extractor knobs made up a few years back...410bore? Perhaps whoever it was still has one?

battle · #10 10-07-2017, 11:12 AM

Other than removing the screw, is there anything else that holds the crane in position?

DWalt · #11 10-07-2017, 11:20 AM

In the frame? I don't think so, but I have never removed the yoke (which is what S&W calls that part) from an 1896. Usually just a screw that goes into a circumferential groove on the yoke arm.

battle · #12 10-29-2017, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Today I spoke with the proprietor of Simmons Custom Services. They specialize in making old gun screws of all types. I bought some for a Winchester. They are excellent quality, blued, and worked perfectly.

They'd be happy to make reproduction 1896 extractor knobs and screws. They'll be a lot cheaper made in volume which he'll do and stock them.

All I need is dimensions to send him. I don't own an 1896 either.

Is someone who does own one willing to share those dimensions? And I'll take care of the rest.

I have an original knob and screw.

Hondo44 sending you a PM.

murphydog · #13 10-29-2017, 08:30 PM

Forum member Mike Priwer had a batch of 1899 (.38 Hand Ejector First Model) knobs made up a few years back, which may or may not be the same part. He may be along to let us know if he has any more.

Hondo44 · #14 10-29-2017, 10:58 PM

Well we seem to be progressing. I will have an example soon to get measurements from, along with photos to send to the supplier for production.

Hondo44 · #15 10-30-2017, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

Forum member Mike Priwer had a batch of 1899 (.38 Hand Ejector First Model) knobs made up a few years back, which may or may not be the same part. He may be along to let us know if he has any more.

Unfortunately they're quite different. Gary (Glowe) confirmed this along with a good photo in Post #9 here:

32 HE 1st Model Parts Source

glowe · #16 10-30-2017, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondo44

Well we seem to be progressing. I will have an example soon to get measurements from, along with photos to send to the supplier for production.

Count me in on this venture. I could use a couple of knobs right now, and if this production comes to fruition I will be buying more no-knob guns. What is not known is how many 32 HE, 1st revolvers are floating around out there without an ejector knob? All I know is that I have passed on quite a few like that in the past.

Hondo44 · #17 11-06-2017, 06:40 PM

Gary,

I have a knob and screw in my possession and have determined all dimensions except the screw size due to condition of the screw. I do not have a ctr pin to check the threads.

Since the screw and ctr pin are the same threads, is it possible that you can determine the TPI with a thread gauge? It appears to be something finer than 48 TPI. The thread diameter is .100".

Thanks,

glowe · #18 11-07-2017, 02:49 PM

I do not have a thread gauge, but photos attached appear to show a 64 TPI?? The rule is graduated in 1/64" hash marks and I can count 7 roots in 7/64", so at least close. Maybe a machinist can come up with the answer with these images.

Just wanted to add a question? Does or should a replacement be a perfect match? I was thinking that this operation will be very costly and maybe there should be thought given to manufacturing a knob without the screw?? The cost would be much less and the effect would be the same, a very nice knob that easily screws onto the rod. For those who might worry about the knob falling off, a drop of medium strength thread locker could be used.

Hondo44 · #19 11-07-2017, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowe

Just wanted to add a question? Does or should a replacement be a perfect match? I was thinking that this operation will be very costly and maybe there should be thought given to manufacturing a knob without the screw?? The cost would be much less and the effect would be the same, a very nice knob that easily screws onto the rod. For those who might worry about the knob falling off, a drop of medium strength thread locker could be used.

Thanks Gary!

Sam is excited about making these and revealed he also collects a few smiths. He's been searching for an 1896 to purchase for testing the final results and will likely keep in his collection. He frequently does that to be sure his end products are perfect.

He intends to produce these in volume and sell them. So initial design costs will be spread over a high volume. I don't have a quote yet because he's only seen photos so far. But I'm sending off these latest photos from you and full dimensions.

As long as we're doing it, at this point we're shooting for exact replacements. Making something simpler can always be an option to consider.

Thanks again. Will share progress as we progress,

battle · #20 11-10-2017, 09:28 AM

Hondo.......

I got your PM but your inbox is full and couldn't message back. My message was if he needs the parts in hand, I'm in no hurry for them.

Donald Paul · #21 11-10-2017, 10:08 AM

[QUOTE=battle;139770978]I'm for sure the ejector rod tip shouldn't look like this?

... this one is original and correct:

battle · #22 11-10-2017, 11:40 AM

Donald, that one looks a little suspect. Is that gun a first model 1896? I have an original ejector knob and screw. My knob doesn't have the same shape. Perhaps they used different style knobs for this model?

Donald Paul · #23 11-10-2017, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battle

Donald, that one looks a little suspect. Is that gun a first model 1896? I have an original ejector knob and screw. My knob doesn't have the same shape. Perhaps they used different style knobs for this model?

...hey Battle-
Looks like two or more vendors may have made them.
Both of mine are 1896 versions {I think}.
Good eye sir, I never noticed the difference 'till you brought it up.
Thanks - Don

Donald Paul · #24 11-10-2017, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Paul

...hey Battle-
Looks like two or more vendors may have made them.
Both of mine are 1896 versions {I think}.
Good eye sir, I never noticed the difference 'till you brought it up.
Thanks - Don

~~~
Well, Battle, Looks like I've wrapped myself around the axle {again}. After posting my response to you minutes ago,
I noticed that the nickel one doesn't fit the barrel correctly.
The cut-out on the barrel is wrong for this knob. So, I feel that I'm not qualified to give a solid opinion. Maybe both knobs could be correct, but one of mine shows an interference with the bbl.
- Don

glowe · #25 11-10-2017, 08:30 PM

There was and is only one ejector rod knob for the 32 Hand Ejector, 1st Model and those are not correct. I am also sure there were no outside vendors selling knobs for this model, but rather a bunch of gunsmiths and do-it-yourself owners out there who came up with whatever could be made to work.

Hondo44 · #26 11-10-2017, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald Paul

~~~
Well, Battle, Looks like I've wrapped myself around the axle {again}. After posting my response to you minutes ago,
I noticed that the nickel one doesn't fit the barrel correctly.
The cut-out on the barrel is wrong for this knob. So, I feel that I'm not qualified to give a solid opinion. Maybe both knobs could be correct, but one of mine shows an interference with the bbl.
- Don

The knobs look identical, non-factory. The mystery is why one interferes under the barrel and one doesn't.

Are the extractor rods the same length?
Are the flat areas under the barrel the same length?
How do the knobs attach - do they have a female thread screwed to the center pin original male thread?

If so, The repro knobs and lock screws I'm having made will replace them w/o issue.

glowe · #27 11-10-2017, 10:35 PM

It appears,that the post 21 shows a large diameter knob that is rubbing on the bottom of the barrel, while the one on post 23 is the same size as the rod, which must have been cut, since it rides under the flat and not ahead of it.

I inspected my 1896s and found that there is a flat ledge on the underside of the barrel that starts at the frame and extends the length of the ejector rod, while the knob extends beyond the barrel ledge. There is no slot cut in the barrel, but rather the knob just hangs under the round part of the barrel. This is a good way to tell if an ejector rod has been shortened, since all barrel lengths use the same length rod.