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10-13-2017, 04:47 PM
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1905 .38: Wadda ya think?
Fella has a 1905 4th Change .38 he wants me to buy. Here's some pics.
Says the grips are "non-standard." Ya think? And loose.
Serial is 440937 so it's been heat treated.
Asking $300 and says it works just fine.
What sort of grips should I be looking for; where should I look, and how much is reasonable. Also, if I wanted to put Pachs or some other grips, any suggestions?
Comments...suggestions, cautions....etc.
thanks in advance.
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10-13-2017, 05:03 PM
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Can't really help you out, but I really like the gun. The grips not so much. They almost had me until I seen that glob of wood filler or whatever it is they used to form the "adapter".
With a new set of grips that would be a sweet piece.
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10-13-2017, 05:06 PM
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Someone will probably help with likely shipping date but perhaps later 1920s or 1930s. Correct stocks will depend on when it shipped and can be found on eBay probably in the $100 range if you're not too picky and since the gun has some wear the stocks should have some too. Given the cost of replacement stocks I'd probably be trying to buy it for less than $300. Good luck.
Jeff
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10-13-2017, 05:13 PM
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My opinion is a bit different--
Yes, those stocks are, ummm, yuck. Period-correct stocks are ultra-cool, look great, look "right", cost too much and feel horrendous for shooting. Any stocks or grips for a K-frame square butt will fit.
I would NOT chase period correct stocks... too much money for stocks that cannot make a common revolver "valuable" while also feel lousy for shooting.
At $300, if double action feel seems totally right AND timing is solid, heck yeah, buy that revolver and shoot it and enjoy it!
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10-13-2017, 05:40 PM
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Some grip sellers at large gun shows have 1950's-'60's stocks at reasonable prices. You could get those and add a grip adaptor.
I'd see if the older, two-panel Pachmayr grips will fit and use those.
Why buy this old gun? Even heat-treated, the gun isn't meant to fire Plus P loads, and I prefer those for defense or shooting animals the size of a raccoon or coyote.
You could use Buffalo Bore's full (850 FPS) full wadcutter loads and have a pretty lethal round that isn't at Plus P pressure.
I'd only buy the gun for nostalgia reasons, to have an older M&P, a classic S&W revolver.
If you want a reel world, frequent use gun, put the money into a Model 64. Same basic idea, but modern metallurgy and stainless steel.
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10-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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Likely spring 1923. I‘ve got a 450xxx shipped in May. Finish looks original and in decent shape, so while it‘s not a steal, if you want a 6-incher, it would do. I would throw away the gruesome-looking grips, so I‘d have to figure some extra cash for period replacements.
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10-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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Well, always heard about birdshead grips. But that is not what I was expecting.
Seems to be a nice one. I would prefer the original grips but would accept those. About the price I can't really help, around here prices are different and so is the availability of some items.
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10-13-2017, 06:13 PM
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Not a fan of the stocks but love the Model 0f 1905. Agree that 1923 looks like a good guess. I saw s/n 4459xx shipped in 4/24.
The closest I have to the one you mention is s/n 453776. It shipped in 9/24.
I'd do the deal. But I am a sucker for a Model of 1905.
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10-13-2017, 08:26 PM
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"Says the grips are "non-standard." Ya think? And loose."
What was your 1st clue?
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10-13-2017, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star
Some grip sellers at large gun shows have 1950's-'60's stocks at reasonable prices. You could get those and add a grip adaptor.
I'd see if the older, two-panel Pachmayr grips will fit and use those.
Why buy this old gun? Even heat-treated, the gun isn't meant to fire Plus P loads, and I prefer those for defense or shooting animals the size of a raccoon or coyote.
You could use Buffalo Bore's full (850 FPS) full wadcutter loads and have a pretty lethal round that isn't at Plus P pressure.
I'd only buy the gun for nostalgia reasons, to have an older M&P, a classic S&W revolver.
If you want a reel world, frequent use gun, put the money into a Model 64. Same basic idea, but modern metallurgy and stainless steel.
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Clearly this gun isn't for self defense or hunting and I don't shoot +P in my 640 and don't need them in my 19-5. And I don't hunt any more so, yeah, this is for "nostalgia" or more for collecting. I'm trying to build a little collection of pre-war, Victory, post war non-numbered and then numbered .38s. Just one of each.....buying range toys with a purpose.
Nothing "professional collector," just a sampling of S&Ws good stuff. So this one fits right into the earlier period, a 15-3 I just got checks off a more modern gun, and now I'm looking at a post-war transitional and I'm on the hunt for a decent Victory without selling any of the grandkids. I've got a couple of model 10s on loan to both my boys' wives for home defense, but I may call one back and give her something else.
Many thanks for all who commented...and keep 'em coming...I love learning about this stuff almost as much as shooting. And now I gotta go looking for stocks.
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10-13-2017, 10:13 PM
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Nice. Get some grips for it and tighten the mainspring screw.
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10-14-2017, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcoat3340
Fella has a 1905 4th Change .38 he wants me to buy. Here's some pics.
Says the grips are "non-standard." Ya think? And loose.
Serial is 440937 so it's been heat treated.
Asking $300 and says it works just fine.
What sort of grips should I be looking for; where should I look, and how much is reasonable. Also, if I wanted to put Pachs or some other grips, any suggestions?
Comments...suggestions, cautions....etc.
thanks in advance.
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Most likely shipped early to mid 1923. Interesting stocks!
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10-14-2017, 12:27 PM
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I am very fond of that era , and would therefore be tempted at that price. However - the grips gotta go , and that is a bargaining lever for you.
I agree that you could easily spend $100 on period grips - I have been that route. If you want the nostalgia , go original. If you a shooter , any K frame target grips should fit , or be fittable. Magnas may fit your hand better than targets , and are readily available.
PLEASE - no rubber grips!!! Not on that nice old piece.
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10-14-2017, 01:00 PM
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I leave these old revolvers for others to buy that have a fondness for them.
Many times buying these old revolvers is buying a money pit.
After shooting it you may decide to resell it.
Once you own it you will probably not like a few things about it and start putting money into it.
Parts for old guns get harder to find.If you find the parts they may be highly priced.
I enjoy looking at some great condition old revolvers on this forum but I don't buy any.
I prefer excellent condition guns I can take to the range and not worry that were made in the 1955-1995 time frame.These days I highly prefer stainless steel made between 1985 and 1995.With blue guns it's 1955-1975 but I do own a 3" 13-2.YMMV
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10-14-2017, 02:05 PM
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Looks like a nice 38 Special M&P. As others have said $300 isn't a bad price but those ugly stocks give you some wiggle room for haggling. But you're not going to loose your shirt at $300. You should be able to find a set of newer stocks from a model 10 for $25 or so.
If the bore is in good shape you will find it to be very accurate. As for the need to shoot +P... why bother. Standard velocity lead wad cutters, SWC, or RN bullets are less expensive and will provide all the accuracy and performance you need. If you want a hotter shooting revolver get a 357 Mag, or a 44 Mag... or why stop there, go all the way up to a 500 S&W!
While it certainly isn't an ideal CCW piece, that old S&W 38 Special will make for a nice field gun, at a price lower than anything new in the stores. The only caveat I will add it that since it is a pre WWII gun, it does not have the improved hammer block which means it should be carried loaded with only 5 rounds and the hammer down on an empty chamber, as was recommended to do with the old Colt single action revolvers.
John
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10-14-2017, 02:35 PM
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I have a 4th change from 1916. My ammo of choice is a standard velocity 148 grain w/c. Works great. Won't rattle the gun apart. Is accurate and fun to shoot. Not a gun for the Apocalypse, but a work of art. If the mechanics, bore and finish are good, $300 is a fair price. If it had the correct stocks, you'd probably pay more. Great revolver. Good luck.
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10-14-2017, 04:08 PM
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John and others, many thanks for the advice. I have absolutely no plans to carry this or shoot anything but mild loads, either factory stuff or home brewed.
I want it for it's history, craftsmanship, beauty, and yes, shootability. Some folks collect Hummels, others cat pictures and some even collect miniature spoons (and there's no rational explanation for any of that except they like that stuff. We collect guns...cause we like' 'em. It's not complicated.
Of course there are people who have guns to hunt with (I don't do that any more); others for self defense (I DO do that....but they ain't guns made in 1923); and other 'cause it's part of their job......and god bless 'em for that.
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10-14-2017, 04:57 PM
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I'd say that one is more likely to have shipped in 1923 than 1924. $300 is not bad for any M&P in shootable condition that is not an eyesore. I just bought one of about the same vintage which was a reblue (non-factory but very nicely done with high-condition original grips), very tight with perfect bore for $350. Normally, I wouldn't be interested in a reblued M&P, but this one caught my eye.
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10-14-2017, 05:23 PM
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You got a nice gun for a nice price. As for the grips, don't just throw them away. I kinda like them. Sometimes function wins out over form. How they feel in your hand is what really counts.
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10-14-2017, 05:43 PM
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For a different opinion: I've never had a vintage pre-war Smith & Wesson revolver "lay down on me." They've never proven to be money pits either, not a single one and I have a goodly number of them on hand. All have given perfect satisfaction over years time. The only money pit would be a Smith & Wesson revolver that has been bubba'd or abused. If the revolver is sound at acquisition then it can provide a lot of enjoyable shooting at the range or in the field.
A few that fall within a few years of the OP's posted revolver.
I don't have to take these revolvers "seriously" as there are other revolvers on hand for serious social purposes, but would have no hesitation to rely on them, even for an extended period up to and including the Apocalypse.
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10-14-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StakeOut
I leave these old revolvers for others to buy that have a fondness for them.
Many times buying these old revolvers is buying a money pit.
After shooting it you may decide to resell it.
Once you own it you will probably not like a few things about it and start putting money into it.
Parts for old guns get harder to find.If you find the parts they may be highly priced.
I enjoy looking at some great condition old revolvers on this forum but I don't buy any.
I prefer excellent condition guns I can take to the range and not worry that were made in the 1955-1995 time frame.These days I highly prefer stainless steel made between 1985 and 1995.With blue guns it's 1955-1975 but I do own a 3" 13-2.YMMV
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Wow - Way to rain on the parade! I have 3 S&W revolvers of that genre , and have no hesitation to taking them to the range. They are reliable , a pleasure to shoot , and great to the eye. These really well made machines are no more likely to fail than something from the 80's or 70's ; maybe less so given the craftsmanship. And - in the unlikely event of a failure , the OP is only in for $300 or so , and one could recoup most of that by selling parts.
After all , this is the "S&W Hand Ejectors 1896 to 1961" forum , right???
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10-14-2017, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveski
Wow - Way to rain on the parade! I have 3 S&W revolvers of that genre , and have no hesitation to taking them to the range. They are reliable , a pleasure to shoot , and great to the eye. These really well made machines are no more likely to fail than something from the 80's or 70's ; maybe less so given the craftsmanship. And - in the unlikely event of a failure , the OP is only in for $300 or so , and one could recoup most of that by selling parts.
After all , this is the "S&W Hand Ejectors 1896 to 1961" forum , right???
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Well, the OP asked for opinions. I may not agree with someone but will not condemn him for being honest.
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10-14-2017, 08:26 PM
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I don't know that "Rain on parade" rises to the level of condemnation.
I still like that model of 1905 , and would be pleased to own it.
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10-14-2017, 09:49 PM
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I'm pretty sure I'd already have bought it for $300.
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10-15-2017, 04:41 AM
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Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveski
I don't know that "Rain on parade" rises to the level of condemnation.
I still like that model of 1905 , and would be pleased to own it.
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You and me alike.
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10-15-2017, 09:26 AM
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uuuuh. I must be a contrarian, but I like those stocks. Probably from the period and done for a serious shooter, possibly one with big paws. 1920's custom wood... I could easily live with that.
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10-15-2017, 10:20 AM
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Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinn
uuuuh. I must be a contrarian, but I like those stocks. Probably from the period and done for a serious shooter, possibly one with big paws. 1920's custom wood... I could easily live with that.
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Me too. And making them as an eagle head is a plus.
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10-15-2017, 10:24 AM
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Buy the gun, bury the grips in a deep hole or send them to Quinn!
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10-15-2017, 11:07 AM
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I wouldn't put period correct grips back on it. They are plain looking and not comfortable when shooting. I'd be rummaging my grip box for some elkhorn magnas. The homemades that are on it would make an interesting curio for the display shelf.
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10-15-2017, 11:37 AM
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I like folks buying the new guns. Less competition out there for the old .38 M&Ps.
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10-15-2017, 12:43 PM
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I think those grips are very interesting!! Maybe not valuable but unique. I might even buy the gun for $300 just to get the grips!!
Ed
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10-18-2017, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedlate
I think those grips are very interesting!! Maybe not valuable but unique. I might even buy the gun for $300 just to get the grips!!
Ed
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For you I have a deal!
To make it really easy and not all the fuss and bother of a gun transfer....I'd be happy to sell you the grips....offer available for one year only....for $250. SAVE $50.00 off the original price. And I'll pick up the postage!!
How can you say, "No?"
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10-18-2017, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcoat3340
For you I have a deal!
How can you say, "No?"
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What a deal! I might have spoken too soon! I think you should auction them off to make more money-I hate to take advantage of you!
Ed
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10-18-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedlate
What a deal! I might have spoken too soon! I think you should auction them off to make more money-I hate to take advantage of you!
Ed
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DONE
An S&W Forum members only Auction.
I'll start by offering $5.00 for someone to take 'em off my hands....do I hear a bid? Ten, ten, ten, ten, ten....do I hear 7.50...7.50 anyone?
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10-19-2017, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StakeOut
I leave these old revolvers for others to buy that have a fondness for them.
Many times buying these old revolvers is buying a money pit . . .
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I wish there were more shooters out there like you. That way there would be more early S&Ws out there for me!! You really don't state if you have purchased lots of money pits or just heard from others, but I have not bought a money pit yet. My interests lie specifically from 1899 to the 1920s and every K frame I have bought works like it should. Latest Internet auction purchase was this 1908 shipped Model 1905 bought for $160. I had to clean it, put on some proper stocks, and am in the process of polishing up the oxidized nickel. Other than that it is as tight and smooth as can be. Shoots well and will continue to do so for a very long time.
To me, there is more to owning and collecting S&Ws than owning only 1950s - 1970s guns. I have some, love my Masterpiece revolvers, but they represent end of all efforts that went into design and manufacture of all models before them, not the beginnings. Early hand fitted machine made guns are hard to beat and the factory had some of the most talented gunsmiths to be found. Unfortunately, they are long gone today and can never be replaced.
Lastly, as for breaking parts, since I started to collect and shoot early K frames some 30 years ago, I have never had to replace a single part. Guess the key is not to buy junk in the first place, and we all know that there are as many 50s - 70s beaters out there as early worn out HEs. I think you are missing a very important part of S&W history by not owning and shooting the early HEs. It is kind of like ignoring your grandparents because they are too old to be relevant. Instead of lacking relevance, I would rather display reverence and respect to those prior generations of S&Ws and continue to marvel at how well made those early guns were.
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10-19-2017, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray
For a different opinion: I've never had a vintage pre-war Smith & Wesson revolver "lay down on me." They've never proven to be money pits either, not a single one and I have a goodly number of them on hand. All have given perfect satisfaction over years time. The only money pit would be a Smith & Wesson revolver that has been bubba'd or abused. If the revolver is sound at acquisition then it can provide a lot of enjoyable shooting at the range or in the field.
A few that fall within a few years of the OP's posted revolver.
I don't have to take these revolvers "seriously" as there are other revolvers on hand for serious social purposes, but would have no hesitation to rely on them, even for an extended period up to and including the Apocalypse.
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Gotta love that round butt model.
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10-19-2017, 12:22 PM
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