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10-13-2017, 07:13 PM
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S&W Revolvers Used by Tribal Police
I am researching the use of S&W revolvers used by Native American tribal police circa 1895-1905. Where can I find information concerning this narrow bit of American history. Did S&W have any contracts to provide revolvers to BIA during this timeline. The .32 first hand ejector was used as a police gun by a lot of city PDs during this period. Would federal government procurements set up a separate contract or buy from regional providers? Or were these tribal PDs given surplus army weapons. Anybody have any info or advice on where to look? Appreciate your thoughts.
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10-13-2017, 07:33 PM
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I wish I could help. I spent most of my time in the FBI on Indian Reservations in Montana, Idaho, and New Mexico. I worked with the tribal police every day, and enjoyed it immensely.
I have no real idea about the narrow timeline you are trying to define. I would start with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, which is now part of the Department of the Interior. In modern times each reservation can choose between tribal police or BIA police. Most choose to administer their own cops and set up a tribal police force. They are still under BIA oversight. I was on one reservation in Montana when the BIA decided to take over the police functions until the tribal cops could come up to standards, and it was a tense affair.
Some reservations, like the Navajo rez, are large enough to have a pretty big tribal police department with their own academy. Most of the smaller reservations have to send their cops to either the BIA academy in Artesia, NM, or a local state academy.
The BIA issues its own guns to its officers. When I was in Montana the BIA agents I worked with carried HK squeeze cockers. The tribal police departments buy their own guns. I have bought ex-tribal guns that were predominantly S&W revolvers - Model 15s, 19s, and 586s. I also have bought ex-tribal S&W 3rd gen semi-autos, both 5906s and 4506s. The Navajo cops now carry Glocks.
I realize this isn't exactly responsive to your questions. I would suppose that the tribal police from 1895-1905 carried whatever the predominant police gun of the day was, though I would look back a few years since they tended to get left overs. If I was writing a book about tribal cops from that period I think I would arm them with well worn Colt SAAs and Remington 1875s. For some reason, nickel guns have always been prevalent on the rez, so I would probably add that detail.
Hope this helps.
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Last edited by sigp220.45; 10-13-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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Absalom, galena, H Richard, JayCeeNC, Kansasgunner, ki5mc, old bear, opoefc, paul s, RdrBill, Rio Laxas, shouldazagged, stu1ritter, TAROMAN, Texas Star, THE PILGRIM, two-bit cowboy |
10-13-2017, 08:18 PM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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This will be no help to the OP for his time frame, but some years ago someone presented a Model 15 here that lettered to the Navajo Nation in the 70s or 80s.
I was heavily into Tony Hillerman‘s novels and remember thinking I‘d pay quite a premium to acquire that gun.
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10-13-2017, 09:31 PM
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Alas, Hillerman knew almost nothing of guns and never said what the police he saw carried. Nor did he cover their uniforms or vehicles.
I asked SIG P-220 for help and he gave me a link to a Navajo site and gun info.
Authors who've been cops can impart a more authentic flavor of the field to their readers.
David Lindsey rode with Houston homicide detectives to get the background for his books. But he was still very sketchy on guns.
I think his liberal background just didn't prep him to ask about guns.
Last edited by Texas Star; 10-13-2017 at 09:34 PM.
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10-13-2017, 10:12 PM
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For years in the 70s to 90s, I had a serious client, now deceased, who collected authentic Indian Police firearms from the 19th century era. I don't recall that any of the several dozen handguns he acquired were Smith & Wessons. Mostly Colts and Remingtons. Many native American individuals owned a variety of small arms, including S&Ws, however they were not Reservation Police appointed by the BIA. Ed.
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10-13-2017, 11:48 PM
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You might wan to get in touch with the Museum of Indian Rta and Culture in Santa Fe, NM. ( Museum of Indian Arts & Culture | Santa Fe, New Mexico). It has lots of info re SW native Americans. I doubt that they can answer your question but I’d a few bucks that they can connect you with folks who can.
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10-14-2017, 12:42 AM
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Here are some Seminole Policemen.
I wish my Buddy Joe was still with us.
He was Omaha and several generations of his family were Tribal Policemen.
Joe? When he was gunned up he was a Gyrene.
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Last edited by THE PILGRIM; 10-14-2017 at 12:46 AM.
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10-14-2017, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
I was on one reservation in Montana when the BIA decided to take over the police functions until the tribal cops could come up to standards, and it was a tense affair.
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I bet I can tell when and where that was.
I think the biggest problem was the fact the police the BIA brought in were members of a traditionally hated tribe to police the ones that really didn't like them.
I didn't see a lot of guns while on the Rez but I did talk to our hospital security who carried a Model 19. When he was a Montana livestock inspector he was issued a Model 1076.
Not much help, I know. That is a very narrow focus you have there. Good luck.
bob
bob
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10-14-2017, 07:10 AM
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Pilgrim just an FYI, I think the fellows in your image are Choctaw Lighthorse including Mr. Peter Conser.
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10-16-2017, 01:08 AM
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In my long ago grad school days I got interested in tribal police, and had some contact with them...but most of my research was from BIA annual reports in the 1870s and 80s. Somewhere along the line I read that tribal police got nickelled Model 1890 Remingtons in those days. The nickel finish was supposed to stand hard use better.
At the time--and I guess it's still true--the only book on the topic was "Indian Police and Judges" by William T. Hagan.
I once made the mistake of asking a Standing Rock tribal policeman "How he liked working for the government"...He gave me a hard look and said, "I work for the PEOPLE." I got the message, in spades.
These days I wonder if anyone would even know what he was talking about.
Last edited by Bat Guano; 10-16-2017 at 01:15 AM.
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10-16-2017, 08:30 AM
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From Wikipedia:
"After the production of a few Model 1888 transition revolvers with 5 3⁄4-inch barrel, called the "New Model Pocket Army", Remington began production of the Model 1890 Single Action Army revolver. It was manufactured between 1890 and 1896 in very small numbers. It is one of the most sought-after of Remington handguns. Standard barrel length was 7 1⁄2 inches or 5 3⁄4 inches. Of the 2,020 produced, a handful of Remington 1890s saw service as side arms by Indian police on Western reservations."
The Remington 1890 is a very unusual revolver. There are a lot of 1890 "forgeries" around as it is simple to modify the much more common Remington 1875 to look like the 1890. All serious Remington collectors are aware of those.
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