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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 10-14-2017, 01:07 PM
Gunguy9977 Gunguy9977 is offline
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Question Need help ID-ing this S&W hand ejector

I have this old S&W revolver I would like some info on. Its in terrible shape. The barrel is cracked and bulged. The front sight has been cut off so I don't know what the length would have been, but it presently measures 3.5 inches. Markings barely readable on barrel are on left are: 32 winchester ctg, on top are Springfield mass patent info I think. No model # under yoke. Missing 2 screws on side plate. Don't know the history on this family heirloom but I think someone may have unwittingly fired it with the barrel plugged up maybe?

Here are the specs I can provide:

It is a hand ejector
Serial # No Letter prefix 51572 on butt
32 winchester ctg (is this 32 long?)
Barrel length not known
Fixed sights
Has strain screw
5 screw model

Would appreciate any info especially model and year. Will attach photos.
Thanks
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:30 PM
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.32 Winchester is .32-20 and also called .32 WCF (Winchester Center Fire). It's a slightly bottleneck cartridge originally chambered in Winchester lever action rifles. No, you cannot shoot .32 Long in it. The rim diameters are much different and the .32 Long is a straight wall case.
It most likely started out as a 6" gun. I think that was the most common length for the .32-20. Without looking it up, I can tell you it was made in the years just before WW1 (circa 1910-1917).

A correct replacement barrel shouldn't be too hard to find. They turn up on Gunbroker and Ebay. Try Jack First Gun Parts or Poppert's Gun Parts. Any competent gunsmith can swap the barrel and turn it back into an accurate shooter. It wouldn't be dangerous to shoot it with that bulge, but accuracy would be atrocious. Plus the missing front sight isn't gonna help any. :-)

Good luck.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:31 PM
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Forgot to add:

That model is simply called the Model of 1905, .32 Military & Police Model.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunguy9977 View Post
I have this old S&W revolver I would like some info on. Would appreciate any info especially model and year
It is a .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905. It likely left the factory around 1911-12. Nearby serial numbers shipped in that period. Examples include 49916 = February, 1911; 51988 = August, 1912.

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32 winchester ctg (is this 32 long?)
No. It is the .32-20, also known as .32 Winchester and .32 W.C.F.

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Its in terrible shape.
Yes, it is.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:41 PM
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Why do so many 32-20s have bulged barrels ? I see this fairly often in S&Ws and Colts.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cgt4570 View Post
It wouldn't be dangerous to shoot it with that bulge, but accuracy would be atrocious. Plus the missing front sight isn't gonna help any. :-) Good luck.
As the OP stated, the barrel is also cracked. If you look at the fourth picture it is very apparent.
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:30 PM
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Talking Project Guns

It would make a good project gun provided the frame is not also cracked. As said 32-20 barrels show up on a regular basis. If the gun cycles and has little or no play in the cylinder when cocked, it would be a candidate for return to shooter status with a replacement barrel. Parts are not too difficult to find. A close exam of the cylinder and frame for cracks is necessary. Hope you can get her up and running.
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Old 10-14-2017, 03:40 PM
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Thanks to all for the info.

As to making it a project gun, all it needs is a new barrell there are no other cracks. Needs some screws.

Right now I am tempted to buy a S&W Mod 10-5 38spl at my local pawn shop. It seems to only need some re-blueing or I may leave it original. I am considering using mine for some re-blueing practice. Any thoughts would be welcome.
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Old 10-14-2017, 04:36 PM
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I think so many 32-20 barrels do show up cracked due to the "rifle" ammo that was available in years past in addition to the pistol ammo. It was too hot for the handgun.
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Old 10-14-2017, 04:38 PM
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I dont know about you guys, but I would like to carefully crack that side plate and peak at the innards. Barrels are around. Its in the category of resurrection able. With a little patience. Surely no beauty at the end of
the exercise, but a little fun. Best
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:37 PM
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Here is a crazy question. Does anyone think this Mod 1905 could be converted to 38spl with just adding a 38 k frame barrel and a 38spl cylinder? 32 cal barrels seem scarce and 32-20 ammo is a bit on the expensive side. I just compared the length and diameter of the 32-20 cylinder with my Mod 10-5 38spl's cylinder and they seem to match perfectly. You can even put the whole 38 cylinder assembly into the 1905's frame and its a perfect fit. Seems to work fine and seems to index correctly. This may have bad idea written all over it.
Let me know what y'all think
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunguy9977 View Post
Here is a crazy question. Does anyone think this Mod 1905 could be converted to 38spl with just adding a 38 k frame barrel and a 38spl cylinder? 32 cal barrels seem scarce and 32-20 ammo is a bit on the expensive side. I just compared the length and diameter of the 32-20 cylinder with my Mod 10-5 38spl's cylinder and they seem to match perfectly. You can even put the whole 38 cylinder assembly into the 1905's frame and its a perfect fit. Seems to work fine and seems to index correctly. This may have bad idea written all over it.
Let me know what y'all think
Yes, it can be done. The only differences between the two are the barrel and cylinder.
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:17 PM
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Welcome to the forum.

At some point family heirlooms should be left as is and hung on the wall with its family provenance written down. I believe yours has reached this point. It shows a long hard life and that's a bigger appeal than trying to "fix" it. It will just look worse.

Any parts swapping will make it look like a Franken gun. And truly not worth the money especially if you need a gunsmith to do the work. The surface pitting makes it beyond able to be refinished and it will look bad.

I sincerely suggest spending the money on a 38 special from the same era in shootable condition. They're plentiful and inexpensive in average condition.
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Welcome to the forum.

At some point family heirlooms should be left as is and hung on the wall with its family provenance written down. I believe yours has reached this point. It shows a long hard life and that's a bigger appeal than trying to "fix" it. It will just look worse.

Ant parts swapping will make it look like a Franken gun. And truly not worth the money especially if you need a gunsmith to do the work. The surface pitting makes it beyond able to be refinished and it will look bad.

I sincerely suggest spending the money on a 38 special from the same era in shootable condition. They're plentiful and inexpensive in average condition.
He's no fun at all, is he? He's absolutely right (as usual), just no fun.

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Old 10-16-2017, 09:45 PM
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Thanks Muley Gil, Hondo44 and Rct269 for the advice. I definitely see the point about keeping heirlooms original.
This is the S&W 10-5 I mentioned earlier, I picked up at my local pawn shop the other day. Rifling great. Shoots great. The finish is quite worn. Someone said that the finish was blue, I thought that it may have been nickel plated. Other than the finish the only mechanical imperfection is the lock pin on the barrel is frozen but doesn't pose a problem. The grips are interesting. They seem homemade out of cow bone. I may get some original grips for it. My 1905's grips are a perfect fit.
Anyone know what the original finish was?
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:59 PM
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Gunguy,

Now there you have a worthy project if you want one to refinish. I can send you a video with tips if you do.

You certainly have good luck with grips. Those on your heirloom 32-20 are original stocks with genuine gold plated medallions only made from 1910 to 1920; they're worth more than the gun, ~ $200 minimum in that condition.

Those on your Model 10-5 are genuine India Sambar Stag, the real McCoys, worth ~ $200. They are very desirable these days.They could use a polish to see their full beauty. If you want to do that, very simple, I can explain how.

The 10-5 was only made in 1962. The -5 designates the change from a 1/10" wide front sight to the 1/8" width.

However, it has no screw in the front of the trigger screw making it a 3 screw version. So it's actually a 10-6 change which eliminated the front trigger guard screw. Recheck the dash # with magnification, 5s can look like 6s. If it is stamped 5 it's a very early -6 that was already in the production process when the =6 change was ordered and already stamped -5.

The lowest screw on the sideplate is a flat head, it shouldn't be in that position. If there's a domed head screw under the top of the grip, those two screws have been swapped accidently.

To determine if Blue or Nickel originally look for the 'B' or 'N' stamped or no letter stamped at all indicates an original Blue finish or an original Nickel finish based upon the corresponding letter.
The absence (more prevalent after 1930) of either the 'B' or 'N' can also indicate that it left the factory nickeled.

Look in these locations for pre war and post war models if serial # is stamped on the barrel flat (or in barrel shroud).

Barrel in front of serial #,
rear face of yoke looking thru a chamber with a flashlight,
on rear face of cyl separated from serial #,
behind the extractor star,
and by itself on right side grip frame on pre war commercial guns,
on post WWII models with no s/n on barrel*, look on left side grip frame.

*The post war and the 1950s period, was one of much evolution. There was the usual transition when blue or nickel finish code letter stamps waned and s/n frame prefix letters began.

Or you'll have to search in crevices for vestiges of the original finish. Or just remove the side plate and there will be no doubt.

Removing sideplate:
Some of the commentary is a little bogus, but the main error is that the two screws indicated as identical, are not! The one that retains the yoke is 'fitted' and therefore specific to that location. Otherwise these are very helpful:

SMITH & WESSON MODEL 10 SERVICE REVOLVER PART 1 - YouTube
Note: The part referred to in the video as the crane is actually the yoke in S&W terms. Crane is the Colt name for that part.

SMITH & WESSON MODEL 10 PART 2 - YouTube

The stuck front locking bolt is a minor issue. Soak with gun cleaner/lubricant and gently tap the front tip where it sticks out in font of the barrel lug.

Flush the entire interior as well thru every opening.
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Old 10-17-2017, 07:33 AM
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Welcome to the forum.

There is not much that I can add to the more than eloquent comments made by my colleagues above. I will merely add my .02 worth. IMHO, the family heirloom gun is beyond restoration. If you add a cylinder and barrel then THE family heirloom gun ceases to exist. If you are looking to have a .38 special shooter then you should be able to find an original without much more expense and without any rebuilding hassle.

The model 10 should be a good shooter with a little cleaning and lubrication. Rebluing is a topic that has been discussed here on the forum ad nauseam. Rebluing a shooter grade gun will not make it collectible and it won't shoot any better. If you are doing it because it will look better then it's your money so do what you like. Again, you can probably sell that gun and for less than what you would spend on a blue job, buy a better example that won't need to be refinished.

All in all, like most things in life, your money, your choice.
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:54 AM
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Thanks Hondo for the wealth of information. Quite a surprise on the grips on both guns.

Yes, I would like to know how to polish the sambar stag grips.

As to the question of the finish, I am thinking that it must be nickel albeit faded. I can find no B or N in any of the places you said. You mentioned that could be an indicator of nickel finish.

You are absolutely right about the side plate screws being in the wrong holes. Unfortunately the round screw is totally frozen/rusted and won't budge. I am trying a little penetrating oil and some gentle persuasion to back it out. So far no luck. I would like to get inside to check for rust and lube if necessary.


I am attaching some new photos that may be helpful.

Thanks for the videos, very informative.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:31 PM
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It appears that .38 M&P has had the finish completely removed and is now in the white. You can clean the remaining rust off it with Naval Jelly or white vinegar. Just put it in a glass baking dish and cover it with vinegar and let it sit. The rust will lift right off. Then you can bead blast it for a matte finish or rough it up with some Scotchbrite pads for a brushed finish then blue it.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:52 PM
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I have found it useful to try to tighten screws when trying to get them loose after letting penetrating oil work its' way in. The rocking motion seems to break them loose. And of course, use the correct screw driver and maybe put some take around the screw in case of a slip.
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Old 10-17-2017, 05:19 PM
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I think I might see remnants of blue in the upper stock corners next to the 1/2 round cutout, but can't tell that well from a photo.

The best thing for the stuck/rusted screw is a drop of ATF (auto tranny fluid) with an equal size drop of acetone mixed and allowed to soak for a day or two. Then with a tight fitting screwdriver, rap the butt of the handle a couple of times before turning the screw.

I would not use vinegar or Naval Jelly, They will etch the surface slightly and you have more sanding to remove the etching. If you plan to cold blue it, you'll want to block sand with 800 grit paper, then 1000, 1500, and end with 2000 grit. Use a small hadr and flat sanding block. Use a hard ink eraser behind the paper for curved areas to avoid flat spotting. Polish by hand with Mother's mag wheel polish or flitz. Do not power buff the surface to polish. NOTE: if you want it nickel plated, ask them not to buff it, just nickel it as you've polished it.

Or see here for bluing technique video Do not use the 400 grit paper for a bright shiny blue and I use 4/0 brass wool (steel wool can leave bits of metal in the pores that can rust):

See Various BLUING Products tested here: Evaluation of several cold bluing products (w/pics) - 24hourcampfire

Nu Blue Welcome to the Stock Doc Store or from Amazon.
Or Oxpho blue paste (from Brownells) are the winners.

Restoring Sambar Stag:
Sand with 800 grit sandpaper using a an eraser as a sanding block. Be very careful on the edges to prevent reducing the grips in size.

Progress thru 1000, 1500 & 2000 grit paper. Polish using a soft cotton buffing wheel, either in a Dremel tool or or power buffer. Use only white rouge (for stainless steel) on the wheel to buff stag. Again, avoid or be very gentle on the edges.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:08 AM
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I would not polish those grips. It took a long time to get that patina.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:36 PM
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Went to my local gunsmith yesterday and he was able to quickly get the stuck screw out. Now the flat head and round head screws are in their proper places.
Its his opinion that the gun was originally blue but it may have been stripped some point in time resulting in the current look. He can professionally re-blue it but I am leaning on leaving it as is.

Thanks for all the info
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