Triple Lock Mistery

maabril · #1 10-17-2017, 12:33 PM

Dear fellows I have in my hands a Smith Triple Lock of a friend who inherited it from his grand father and I can not find the Caliber of the gun stamped anywhere. I tried load it with 455 webley , 450 eley and 45 Auto Rim and any of these cartridges do not fit. It is not converted to 45 colt as many triple locks were.
Must I send more data about the gun so anybody can help me to find the caliber to the forum?
I cut a 45 colt shell to the size of a 45 auto rim cartridge and I reloaded it and shot it with no problem but the gap between cilinder and frame in the back part of the cilinder is narrow to fit a 45 Auto Rim cartridge. Please can anybody help me? If is needed mor info I can send included some pics of the gun.

murphydog · #2 10-17-2017, 12:46 PM

Welcome! There were originally made in .455 (which could be converted to fire .45 ACP and Colt, as you know) and .44 Special. From your description of the gap between the rear cylinder face and recoil shield it doesn't sound to be a .45 Colt conversion. Any chance you can measure the length of the charge hole to the chamber shoulder (this would be the case length)?

Tom S. · #3 10-17-2017, 12:47 PM

Did you try 45 acp with moon clips?

OFT II · #4 10-17-2017, 12:53 PM

It sounds like the 455 should fit. Giving the serial number may be of some help.

Wiregrassguy · #5 10-17-2017, 12:53 PM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! When you say .455 Webley...45 AR don't fit, do you mean they do not fully insert or don't insert at all? It is really odd that you can fit a .45 Colt but not .45 AR.

What is the serial number?

H Richard · #6 10-17-2017, 12:58 PM

Did you try 44 Special?

maabril · #7 10-17-2017, 03:01 PM

dear friends I will answer the questions you send. first I say that the 45 AR has a thick rim and I can,t close the cilinder , the same happens with 45 acp with moon clips that I tried but is impossible close the cilinder because of the narrow gap between cilinder and frame.
Respect to try 44 special apparently the caliber is 45 not 44 because if I put a .429 bullet in the bore mouth it travels free obviously is small.I did not slug the barrel yet.
I measured the chamber and is aprox .900 inch so its the length of te 45 acp or 45 AR

TIMETRIPPER · #8 10-17-2017, 03:14 PM

It's odd that it will chamber a cut down 45 Colt but not the 455 Webley. Case length for the latter was less than .8"

John

maabril · #9 10-17-2017, 03:23 PM

I can not fit a 45 colt I just told that I cut the 45 Colt shell to .900 inch and it fits ok and shoot ok.

Wiregrassguy · #10 10-17-2017, 03:38 PM

I wonder if this is one of the army test guns that was chambered for 45 Smith & Wesson special.

Guy

Wiregrassguy · #11 10-17-2017, 03:55 PM

maabril, you say this is a triple lock. Does it look like this gun or the one below it.

.455 Triple Lock

.44 Russian (cause I don't have a Schofield)

BTW, if you can't post pictures, PM me your email address and I'll post them for you.

Hondo44 · #12 10-17-2017, 07:20 PM

You have a British Service revolver which were all chambered in 455 Mk I/Mk II which have the thinnest rim of all 45 cartridges, but so do the 455 Eley, Webly and 450 Boxer. That's why many do not have a cartridge marked on the barrel, they are all the same chambering. If the cut down 45 Colt fits, they should easily be able to close the cyl on the 455 Eley, Webly and 450 Boxer unless they have high primers.

It's just that simple.

There's not a slight recess/counter bore in each chamber, correct?
Yes a 45 Colt case cut down in length will chamber and sometimes allow the cyl to be closed and shoot, but with insufficient head space. Although if it fits, so should the 455 Eley, Webly, and 450 Boxer!!

The gun has not been converted to any other cartridge and can be confirmed by the serial # still being on the rear face of the cyl.

It's great to find one un-converted to another cartridge.

maabril · #13 10-17-2017, 09:40 PM

Wiregrassguy my name is Manuel , I am from Argentina and my e-mail is [email protected] , the gus is similar to the first picture , the 455 triple lock. I can take pics and publish them here if you think it will be usefull. Thanks from now for your support

maabril · #14 10-17-2017, 09:48 PM

Jim there is not a recess in each chamber , and the 45 colt original can not be chambered because it is longer than the chamber , that`s why I cut the 45 colt shell to .900" .
Is possible it be a British Service revolver which were all chambered in 455 Mk I/Mk II which have the thinnest rim of all 45 cartridges . This could be the reason why I can´t find the caliber marked in the gun.

Texas Star · #15 10-18-2017, 03:28 AM

Manuel-

I think the only S&W's not to be marked with the caliber are the .455's of World I, sold to the British and other Commonwealth countries.

Some were true Triple Locks and some lacked the third lock by the cylinder crane ad lacked the lug around the extractor rod.

If you post photos, we can be sure what you have. A number of N-frame revolvers were sold in South America, some being chambered for .44-40 Winchester. But I think the caliber was marked on the barrels. Even some of the .455's were so marked.

murphydog · #16 10-18-2017, 04:16 AM

The .455 Webley case length is 0.886", so it makes sense that a 0.9" case length round will function - but you mentioned a .455 Webley round will not "fit". That is a bit of a mystery.

Wiregrassguy · #17 10-18-2017, 07:21 AM

Manuel, I suppose there is no need to post pictures unless the gun has proof and other military stamps that might help identify it. It is almost certain that you have a .455 triple lock. The cylinder chambers are bored for .455 Eley MKI which is a longer cartridge than .455 MkII. But the MkII cartridge was the official cartridge in WWI. What has us all confused (and you as well) is why you cannot chamber a .455 cartridge since all of them should fit, as Alan says above. There are sharper minds than mine here. So, I will leave it to them to figure out this dilemma.

maabril · #18 10-20-2017, 11:25 AM

Fellows here I include some pics of my triple lock.

maabril · #19 10-20-2017, 11:37 AM

I measured the chamber deep until the beggining of the cone and I measured .950 inch. The gap between cilinder and frame is .04 inch

maabril · #20 10-20-2017, 11:41 AM

Is possible with the number of the gun , 2102 , to know which cal was produded for? The gun seems not have been modified to receive a different caliber than the original. under the yoke it has the number 1234.

maabril · #21 10-20-2017, 11:44 AM

Here go some more pics

maabril · #22 10-20-2017, 11:47 AM

I hope the Pics help to resolve this mistery..
Thanks folks!!!

handejector · #23 10-20-2017, 11:54 AM

It is a 455.

maabril · #24 10-26-2017, 11:53 AM

Dear fellows thanks for your info. Assuming it´s a 455 Eley Mark I and having in consideration thas is virtually impossible get that Cartridge here in Argentina can you say me in the case of departing from 45 Colt shells (which I have plenty) how much is the lenghth I must cut? Otherwise which is the final OAL I must have?

I have bullets copper plated in .452" of 200 grains SWC and 230 grains Round that I use to reload for my Colt 1911 , which of those you reccomend to load the shots for the triple lock?

Again thanks for your kind support...

Wiregrassguy · #25 10-26-2017, 02:22 PM

The Webley MKI case length is 21.7mm. The MKII is 19.3mm. Either of these should work, but I suggest you make them 19.3mm since they reduced the length when they went to smokeless powder. The British cartridges were originally lead but, after the war started, they shifted to the plated bullet to comply with the Hague Convention. So, you can shoot either bullet if you want.

Hondo44 · #26 10-26-2017, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maabril

I cut a 45 colt shell to the size of a 45 auto rim cartridge and I reloaded it and shot it with no problem...

Since you measuered a .040" space between cyl and recoil shield, I don't know how you were able to close the cyl and shoot shortened 45 Colt, the 45 Colt rim is .055" thick.

cgt4570 · #27 10-26-2017, 05:52 PM

You might have to thin the rims of .45LC brass to make them fit. If so, you want to take the .015" of metal off the side that rests against the cylinder, NOT from the headstamp side. That way you won't affect the primer pocket depth. This could be done very easily in a small lathe.