Received a letter from Roy Jinks today stating we are sorry to inform you that we cannot supply any information concerning your Model 29 .44 Magnum revolver serial number S187885. This firearm is open on Smith & Wesson records with no disposition listed; therefore we are unable to trace the history of this firearm.
My revolver is a 6-1/2" blued gun and was probably made in 1959 but was never recorded out in the shipping records. Has anyone else had this happen to them before. First time for me.

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Mike
SWCA #1159

Yes, I had a nickel snub 12 that would not letter.

Everything was done manually. They were human even back then.

It might not help for your M29, but I list SN S1864xx as shipping in 4/59. Also S182,000 – S194,499……Late 1958 – Early 1959 (manufacture)

I have a 44 Magnum engraved by Alvin White in October 1956 that is "open" on the records of S&W. This does happen from time to time.

Bill

I don't feel so bad now. Thanks.

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Mike
SWCA #1159

Many things could have happened. Maybe one of the 'higher ups' could have needed it to show someone. The 'line' wouldn't have asked any questions.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

"Open on the books" simply means they know they made it---and don't know what happened to it. Mr. Taylor's response (Post #7) is as good as you're going to get. Variations on the same theme abound.

It stands to reason they knew what happened to it at the time, but didn't bother with documenting the disposition----or it was documented outside of the normal records (shipping and invoice) typically used as research documents for a letter.

I have a gun shipped to a famous person---gratis. It lettered as such. I absolutely, positively KNEW the Historical Foundation would have a ton of stuff on it---all the documentation necessary to give something away---right? Wrong!! They had the invoice. It showed what presumably was the cost to make the gun---and that it was charged to the advertising account---and that it was approved by W.B.---and your guess is as good as mine.

I have another invoice (same type of gun/same time period/also gratis) and it was approved by H.W.. I decided that had to be Harold Wesson---damn shame it wasn't him who approved the gift of my gun.

The bottom line of "Open on the books" is sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you.

Ralph Tremaine

Same church---different pew------------------

I have copies of a couple of the pages from the shipping records---two out of an unknown number which has to be A BUNCH. They suggest that while a finding of "open on the books" doesn't happen every day, it's not necessarily a really rare occurrence. The first page contains 100 serial numbers apparently dedicated to 1st Model Single Shots (from 14201 to 14300). There are two numbers which clearly suggest "open on the books"---and two more which may be the same, or simply attributable to faded records or a not so good copy. The second page is for the first K-22/40's (with some M&P variants thrown in for good measure)---again 100 guns. The second lowest numbered 22/40, or perhaps an M&P (682421) shows nothing---presumably "open on the books". One other number's the same.

So, based on a couple of pages of shipping records 47 years apart, it happens.

Ralph Tremaine

Did you get your money back?

Why should he get his money back? They still had to do the same research, and he got a signed letter stating what they found. Not a whole lot different than getting a letter saying it shipped to Joes Hardware Store, neither adds to the value of the gun. It's always a gamble when we get a letter. Sometimes you hit the jackpot. Plus you got Mr. Jinks autograph, and the money goes to the foundation.

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Get off my lawn!

Remember that you are paying for the research and the actual letter, all taking time. Results are free. Remember when the letter comes back as "shipped to Ulysses S. Grant" they don't charge more.

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James Redfield
LM #497

I have a 14-2 with a 5" barrel and ramp front sight that letters the same way. Roy added to my letter that this may have been a "Memo" account gun that had been used for a promotion and delivered to a company executive and not properly recorded. He did state it was manufactured in the spring of 1963.

Stu

Roy also mentioned that for my Model 29. I don't expect any type of refund and I appreciate the research that was done.

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Mike
SWCA #1159

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, but in line with this post about Factory Letters, I just got my glossy copy in the mail of RIA Dec auction and guns abound with "factory letters, from the collection of", etc.) and I thought...why do I Letter some S&W's but for sure not all? Short answer...because it is me, and only me, that is curious about that one gun in my collection. So...sure if I were to ever bid on something like one of the many RM's in that auction...yea ...I would want to know a little more than basics that could be found in SCSW 4th, but the M1 Garand from Bruce Canfield collection?....No....I realize he is famous and the authoritative expert on M1's but mine has enough provenance for me so I'm happy.

The quote from another poster is right on the money in my humble opinion.....the foundation doesn't charge one penny more for the research and Letter authentication no matter what the records show.....unlike RIA and other high end houses where if there is a name attached the bidding usually takes off for the outer rings of Saturn.

The S&W Factory Letters are a clear bargain when you put one side-by-side with a Colt factory Letter. Mr. Jinks always includes some historical info about the particular Model (sometimes running two pages) before the info about your particular serial number. The few Letters I have show history and info that is not available in SCSW 4th, or elsewhere that I can easily find. Colt Letters are higher price, sometimes a lot less info, and no model history to speak of...very impersonal in the least.

Think about how much time you put into research and browsing the Net either before or after you buy your latest acquisition and then put your own hourly rate on that time. $75.00 for a Roy Jink's signature authenticated factory Letter on your serial number??? ....Priceless.... (and for all else there is MasterCard).

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

I'm not an autograph collector.

Well, don't ask for autographs then.

Think of it this way.... "Open on the Books" is a lot rarer the the general run of the mill Smiths.

Does it add value?? No more than the one to Joe's Hardware.
Does it detract from value? No more than the one to Joe's Hardware.

(Maybe it should add a little as it is scarcer than the average.)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

But........nothing was found!

And that is a finding . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I look at it this way. When I go to my doctor with a question about an ache, pain, discomfort, etc. and they find "nothing" wrong, I don't get a refund for the cost of the tests, the doctor's time and the expertise that was used to assess my condition, evaluate the results and reassure me. The only piece of paper I get is a bill... I too have some "open on the records" letters and they are proudly filed with all the other history of that gun. I think that sometimes "open on the records" is a license to expand one's imagination as to what might have been...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I have a 5" .44 Spl 3rd Model HE from the late 30's 'Open on the books". I plan to check with the SWHF but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Roy's information was valuable. The history is interesting and I'm curious about how it left the factory. But I like the gun no matter the circumstances.

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Mike SWCA 2865 NRA Benefactor

Let me try to shed some light on "open on the books". It's not that there are no records available on a particular piece. People can speculate all they want about what it means, "someone walked out the door with it in his lunchbox, Doug Wesson wanted it. I could go on. It simply means that someone missed putting the destination entry into the books. There were records of it being built, but at present, a hand search for the serial number isn't possible.
As far a lettering a gun. It's a choice one has to make. Again, I see this comment all the time, "Why letter a Plain Jane .38 M&P, they made a couple million." This may be the best reason I can think of. I bought this because I like the old revolvers that are like new in their original box. I bought it. I lettered it. "Factory records show it shipped on April 1, 1927 and delivered to Frank H. Wesson, Treasurer, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Mass." Just another Plain Jane M&P? Yes, they made a couple million, but only a couple went to a Wesson.
Don Mundell
Assistant Historian SWHF

Attached Images

	1905 13.JPG (132.5 KB, 25 views)
	1905 box 11.JPG (78.1 KB, 23 views)
	1905 7.JPG (80.5 KB, 17 views)

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Don Mundell

I would suggest that the next time that your order a letter ask Roy and or Don not to sign it. Problem solved.

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James Redfield
LM #497

But the work was still done. In order to research any S&W beyond ship date and destination, the invoice needs to be pulled. This requires a trip to the museum and a physical search of the paper documents. Once the original invoice is found, then a history letter is written to respond to the customers specific questions.

It's kind of like drilling for oil. The drilling company still gets paid if they come up with a dry hole. I don't know of too many industries where you do the work but don't get paid for your time unless results are forthcoming.

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James Redfield
LM #497