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03-06-2018, 09:04 PM
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MOD-23
A short confession first: Over the 12 years that I have been a member here, the vast majority of my explorations has been the Classified, S&W Revolvers: 1961-1980, S&W Revolvers:1980 to the Present and Smith &Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols...
I don't recall ever looking through the S&W Hand Ejectors:1896-1961, as all of my "collection" are from the latter Forums.
That may be changing soon...
Today, while visiting a LGS on official police business, I did as I normally do- I checked to see what was new in the used S&W counter. In the showcase were a beautiful 4" M-19 and a comparable 4" M-29. But between them was something I'd never seen before- as a matter of fact I thought the sale tag was mis-marked... The hang tag identified the revolver as a .38 Model 23.
This is what I saw:
Tell what we have here, please.
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03-06-2018, 09:08 PM
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Outstanding
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Kris
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03-06-2018, 09:20 PM
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I think it is basically a 38/44 Outdoorsman.
Last edited by LPD256; 03-09-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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03-06-2018, 09:43 PM
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Most of the adjustable-sight .38-44s produced on the 1950 design were not model marked and are commonly referred to as Pre-23s. The configuration was not a commercial success, but stayed in the catalog until 1966. Very few were produced after the introduction of model numbers. The Pre-23s themselves are not commonly seen because of the low production, but the model-marked specimens are flat-out rare. I don't recall seeing more than two or three of them mentioned in the last decade.
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03-06-2018, 09:49 PM
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A couple more shots of the revolver:
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03-06-2018, 10:40 PM
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Since it IS marked MOD-23, it IS a Model 23, not a pre Model 23. It is also known as a .38/44 Heavy Duty Outdoorsman.
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WAR EAGLE!
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03-06-2018, 11:46 PM
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Go in at one and a half large and see where you get. Never seen one, although I have a Model of 1950 pre-version bought from some ape in Georgia 
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03-06-2018, 11:46 PM
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Clearly the gun store is not staffed by lazy dummies! They know what they've got and pricing accordingly. There really is very little precedent for what the price should be since most of us haven't seen one until your pics.
I would most likely buy it at that price if I could look at it up close and personal.
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03-06-2018, 11:57 PM
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That is a model marked 23. Only seen one other one in my life. That gun is rare. If you don't buy it, send me the info and I'll buy it.
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03-07-2018, 12:10 AM
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What a sweet find!  Needless to say, you brought it home, or soon will! I'll be picking up my pre war Outdoorsman, in a couple of days! Can't wait!
Congrats!!!
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03-07-2018, 03:40 AM
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If I had the opportunity to buy something like this, I would probably dislocate my shoulder getting my wallet out. You will never lose money on it if you do buy it.
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03-07-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
Since it IS marked MOD-23, it IS a Model 23, not a pre Model 23. It is also known as a .38/44 Heavy Duty Outdoorsman.
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Minus the HEAVY DUTY, yes
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03-07-2018, 12:19 PM
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When the SCSW, 4th Ed. says "value to rare to estimate," you know you got a deal paying under 5 figures.
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SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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03-07-2018, 12:38 PM
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Model 23
I don't think I would have left the store without it. 
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03-07-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Brown
I don't think I would have left the store without it. |
Based upon some (if not all...) of the posts here and the PMs sent to me by several of you, who know much more about the MOD-23 than me, I went right to the store this morning and got there 15 minutes before opening. There were actually two or three cars with customers waiting for the shop to open (I'm not saying they were there for the 23, but I was concerned.)
The manager saw me at the door and let me in before opening and I was able to put the revolver on hold!
I went back later in the day to complete the purchase and left the shop with the 23 feeling I did pretty well.
The yoke and the cylinder are both numbered to the gun, but the grips, which I believe to be original, do not.
The gun is in exceptional condition for 60 years old, with a turn line but not much more to show. The blueing is excellent and the bore and cylinders are pristine.
I don't know what more pics I can post, but if anyone has a suggestion, please let me know.
Finally, I know Mr. Jinks is no longer with S&W, but I misplaced the site where we can still request letters from him...
I have the site for the S&WHF, which I don't think is the same as Mr. Jinks...?
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03-07-2018, 07:45 PM
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Jim, you did great. I miss those NY gun shops, you never knew what you would find.
http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.co...quest_form.pdf
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03-07-2018, 07:59 PM
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MOD-23
Outstanding! Congrats on your purchase and please take care of that one. I recently snagged something similar, off by “1”
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Last edited by Hoosier45; 03-07-2018 at 09:08 PM.
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03-07-2018, 09:09 PM
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Hoosier45's post convinced me to post a photo of my model 20. This is a well worn (exterior finish) Pueblo, CO PD weapon. It still shoots great and is one of my favorite range guns.
Maybe we will get some more of the rare 1950 "N" frame model marked revolvers posted here.
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Last edited by kennethg; 03-07-2018 at 09:10 PM.
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03-07-2018, 10:50 PM
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Super cool gun and an awesome find! I don't think you'll hurt it by shooting it, so how about a range report? With pictures, of course.
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03-08-2018, 12:42 AM
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Wow! Nice gun.
Have never seen one model marked.
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03-08-2018, 07:57 PM
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Good for you, I was attracted to the Pre-Model 23 Outdoorsman because it is a heavy N-framed revolver chambered for .38 special without the .357 extra length chamber. I like to shoot my .38 special in a piece chambered for it, the same way I like to shoot .44 special...no magnums required.
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03-09-2018, 08:23 AM
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Here's another model marked N Frame you don't see.....
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03-09-2018, 12:20 PM
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Application sent to SWCA and request for a letter on this gun sent to Mr. Jinks...
Additionally, I was able to contact the original licensee (yeah, I know, but it’s NYS!), and a very nice old gentleman told me he acquired the gun around 40 years ago from the Riverhead (NY) police department. He didn’t recall if it had been owned by a police officer or a civilian, but was pretty sure the owner had passed.
The letter should clear this up a bit, but I’ll continue my investigation in house...
And, I’m told that there is currently one other S&W Model 23 licensed in my county.
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Last edited by demkofour; 03-09-2018 at 07:59 PM.
Reason: Added information/spelling/grammar
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03-09-2018, 12:26 PM
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Sounds as though you became officially overwhelmed. What a purchase, what a adventure, Now are you going to shoot it?
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03-09-2018, 12:54 PM
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Congrats on the purchase of a great gun!
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03-09-2018, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raylan007
Sounds as though you became officially overwhelmed. What a purchase, what a adventure, Now are you going to shoot it?
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Officially overwhelmed? A bit...
An adventure? Yup...
I was able to sit down with the owner (and his lovely wife) today- again, a real gentleman.
He recalls that the Riverhead PD had an advertisement in a local paper for guns for sale from an estate. He responded to the add and purchased the 23 along with another revolver from the department and went right to the Suffolk County PD Licensing Bureau and added both guns to his license. The other gun, which he didn't recall, was eventually sold to a friend, but he kept the 23 for himself. He admired the 23 because it could shoot hot .38 loads without issue. His recollection is that he paid $50 for the Smith.
I visited the archives of my department's Pistol Licensing Bureau today and I found the original Pistol Purchase Record for the gentleman's transaction; It's dated May, 04, 1973 and lists the purchase from the Estate of Harold Y*****r from Riverhead NY.
When the gun gets lettered, I'll be able to add more pieces to this puzzle. In the meantime, I'm hoping to reach out to the NYSP Licensing Bureau in Albany for more information.
Will I be shooting it? I'm inclined at this point to say no...
Finally, I researched the possibility of other S&W 23s licensed here in the county. What I found that at one time, there were as many as 7 listed Model 23s in the County. One even shows a serial number one off from mine!
It appears that currently there are 3, including mine.
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03-09-2018, 08:43 PM
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My Dad had one he competed with as a member of the State Patrol Pistol Team. It’s had many rounds sent through it. If your gun has been shot, my opinion is shooting it some more won’t change the value any. Just don’t drop it......
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03-09-2018, 08:46 PM
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The research can be as fun as the acquisition. Congratulations! Honestly, there's no reason not to shoot it. It was built for it.
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03-10-2018, 12:27 PM
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Unfortunately this one from Jan 1957 is not model marked. #S14627x.
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03-10-2018, 12:52 PM
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Yours has a SN which is a little lower than any N-frame on my list which has a stamped model number, so it must be a very early Model 23. It likely shipped in 1958.
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04-06-2018, 07:40 PM
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Letter received
I received the letter several days ago, from Roy, but been very busy at work...
My research shows the gun was registered with its first "licensed" owner in November of 1960, and the second owner in 1973. I'm the third.
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Last edited by demkofour; 04-06-2018 at 07:50 PM.
Reason: Added info
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04-06-2018, 07:45 PM
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Cool. Looks like the gun didn't travel too far from home in all those years. I am envious. Congratulations on that great find and stay safe.
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04-06-2018, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil
Since it IS marked MOD-23, it IS a Model 23, not a pre Model 23. It is also known as a .38/44 Heavy Duty Outdoorsman.
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The Heavy Duty and the Outdoorsman, while related, were separate models and did not share nomenclature. Since this one has adjustable sights, that makes it an Outdoorsman. The Heavy Duty was the fixed-sight model.
Oh BTW, are these guns safe with +P ? ;-)
Larry
Last edited by lebomm; 04-06-2018 at 08:20 PM.
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04-06-2018, 09:49 PM
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Congrats OP on a rare gun. You now need to source a pair of Diamond Targets with the extractor relief (aka football cutout) to put it back to original configuration.
Here is my pre-war Outdoorsman. It's a great shooter:
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01-14-2022, 10:13 PM
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Happy 62nd. Birthday
Happy 62nd. Birthday to my Model 23, ship date January 14, 1960 to Rex Firearms Co., NYC, NY!
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01-14-2022, 10:23 PM
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Congrats on an AMAZING find!!!
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01-14-2022, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demkofour
Happy 62nd. Birthday to my Model 23, ship date January 14, 1960 to Rex Firearms Co., NYC, NY!
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Indeed, happy birthday!
I have a Model 1950 that will be 72 in February. But I am fairly sure you knew that.
(edit to correct age) It will be 66 next month. This is why I try not to do math after 16 hour days.
Kevin
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Last edited by StrawHat; 01-15-2022 at 08:03 AM.
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01-15-2022, 10:08 AM
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I'm a big fan of the .38/44 Outdoorsman, but I've never seen one actually marked as a Model 23. As a matter of fact, I don't see many .38/44s for sale around here at all! The shop must have done their research because their asking price seems to be a fair one...you didn't mention what you paid but I would assume that you dickered for a slightly better price since the stocks are not original. Congratulations- it's a great find, and you're lucky to have found this revolver. BTW- you mentioned that when you spotted the .38/44 it was sitting between a 4" Model 19 and a 4" Model 29...did the shop have reasonable prices on those or were they sky high? Just curious. Enjoy!
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01-15-2022, 10:20 AM
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It was almost 4 years ago, and I just checked to see if I had photographs of the Mod. 19 and Mod. 29- nothing other than the Mod. 23 and an NYPD 3914DAO I got at the same time. I recall they were reasonably priced, but my attention was drawn to the 23, which I honestly was going to buy at the advertised price. The shop manager spoke to the owner and I was given a couple hundred off that price!
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01-15-2022, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demkofour
…The shop manager spoke to the owner and I was given a couple hundred off that price!…
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Turn in your badge!
Kevin
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01-16-2022, 10:07 AM
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LOL! Sorry, demkofour...I didn't check the original posting date (2018) and just assumed that this was a fresh post. Glad to hear that you still own and are enjoying your Model 23.
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04-06-2022, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 12
Likes: 1
Liked 19 Times in 9 Posts
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I have read this post with great interest. The most interesting part was the letter from S&W. The shipping date “Jan 14, 1960” is my wife’s birthday. We’re all looking for a birthday gun, I just found hers, now if I can talk the owner out of it I know what I’ll get for her next birthday. I mean what she’ll get for her next birthday. Congratulations on a great find.
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The Following 3 Users Like Post:
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04-06-2022, 09:23 PM
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SWCA Member
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,871
Likes: 11,839
Liked 13,832 Times in 3,362 Posts
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I actually examined a model marked 23 about 20 years ago at a gun shop. The poor thing was loose as a goose and appeared to have been poorly refinished not once but several times. It was a mess but was not priced too high. Looking back, I should have bought it.
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04-14-2022, 06:28 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 119
Likes: 557
Liked 22 Times in 14 Posts
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Model 23
Very rare .38/44 on the 4-screw frame. Produced during the period of S&W's finest polish and blue. Thank you for posting it.
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04-15-2022, 08:17 AM
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US Veteran
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Atlanta area
Posts: 8,980
Likes: 16,204
Liked 19,829 Times in 4,473 Posts
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Beautiful gun. Just an observation on the grips, which you mentioned do not number to the gun. The left panel appears to be sharp shoulder and the right, round shoulder. That would not have mattered much to me if the gun was in my sights.
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