Identification of a M&P Victory

[helmsp]

Hiho,
I got dozens and dozens of S&W between 1961 and 1997 but no pre- resp- post-wars so far, ergo my noobish question.

I just found this good looking revolver on one of my favourite auction sites here in Europe.
Serial number makes it a victory model and, imho, condition looks quite good.
A bit off for me is a.) this is not the ordinary 4" barrel and b.) the front sight is not a half moon.
Possible that one of the pre-owners installed a different barrel?
Grips looks to be worked on too but not a problem for me.

See pics here: S&W M&P Victory


edit:
Might be easier for you guys if I just attach the pics directly instead of linking them to dropbox.

[JP@AK]

It was a Victory or a BSR, but someone gave it a new barrel and a new extractor rod (and maybe a new cylinder). If it is the original cylinder, the same serial number will be on the rear face.

The mutilated stocks are from the postwar period.

[helmsp]

Thought so. Cheers buddy.
Too bad really, I always liked 6" K-frames from the proportions and looks.

[digi-shots]

helmsp, very interesting Victory. The frame looks like it has post war German "Ulm" proof marks (c. 1952 or later ?)

I too, would be interested to know if the serial number on the face of the cylinder matches the number on the butt of the gun.

Is there a "US Property" stamping on the frame topstrap?

[helmsp]

Originally Posted by digi-shots

helmsp, very interesting Victory. The frame looks like it has post war German "Ulm" proof marks (c. 1952 or later ?)

Ulm 1965, correct.

I will ask for pictures concerning the barrel top strap and the cylinder face.

[Targets Guy]

V524756 shipped 2/1/44

[DWalt]

Every Victory on my list having a reasonably nearby SN to that one shipped in early 1944. The front sight and extractor rod styles date from somewhat after the Victory production's end. The handsomely(?) carved grips are from post-1969. It's a Frankengun.

[Absalom]

This was a former Bavarian-issue police revolver. It’s recognizable by the milled-out areas on the left side. It must have later been put up for sale commercially in Germany, necessitating the proofing.

So the frame could be US Victory or BSR. Bavaria got several thousand in 1946, including quantities of both versions.

PS: Upon closer inspection, the milled area appears to have the HEGE stamp in it. That’s a large gun and surplus dealer who did that with surplus Bavarian guns; we’ve seen examples here before. All HEGE Victorys I have seen were original 4” versions.

[kwill1911]

Based on the butt I would guess this was a U.S. Victory Model that was originally shipped to the OSS. Many of them were left behind for German police. I think the barrel and stocks have been changed and the gun refinished.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by kwill1911

.... and the gun refinished.

The finish is actually an interesting one. The frame looks very close to original, if it weren't for the millings and proofs being completely covered. The finish in the butt picture looks totally original. And the barrel has a different standard blue finish, the barrel proofs looking as if they were applied on top of the finish.

[kwill1911]

Absalom,

I think the frame may have a "dip blue" over the original finish. That was common with guns in Europe, right?

[JSR III]

A close up look at the barrel pin shows evidence that it has been removed and replaced. The extractor rod knob is the smallest version that S&W produced and is postwar IIRC. As others have stated, the stocks have no diamonds and are post 1968.

The gun has NO collector value and no one knows how well it will shoot. Unless it is an absolute give away price, I would pass.

My comments are based on availability to purchase like guns here in the US. Availability in your country may be different and therefore your desire to purchase may be different.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Absalom,

I think the frame may have a "dip blue" over the original finish. That was common with guns in Europe, right?

Indeed. I would think Hege did that after the milling. But it’s almost like they forgot to dip the bottom of the butt. The more I look at an enlargement of the butt photo, the more it looks to me like it has not changed since the factory.

[digi-shots]

Originally Posted by kwill1911

Based on the butt I would guess this was a U.S. Victory Model that was originally shipped to the OSS. Many of them were left behind for German police. I think the barrel and stocks have been changed and the gun refinished.

I'm with Kevin on this one... I'd bet it's an OSS Victory that was later used by German police, especially if there are no US Property markings on the topstrap.

From my records, I show approximately 3,600+ Victory models shipped to the OSS in late December 1943; 2 shipments - 2,610 on 12/21/43 and another 1,067 on 12/30/43. So far, serial numbers in the 488xxx to 498xxx range have been noted.

I have a Victory model from each of these 2 shipments and they both show post war German police markings.

I think there are a couple of members here on the forum that also have similar shipped Victory models.

For the purist, it may have lost some collector value, but I like it.

[helmsp]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the vaste amount of knowledge.
Thank you, thank you, thank you guys.

I'm still waiting for the pics of the topstrap and cylinder s/n.

What does OSS mean?

[murphydog]

Office of Strategic Services, a WW II organization that transformed later into the CIA. No fair guessing what those letters mean.