|
|
04-23-2018, 08:55 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 164
Likes: 62
Liked 46 Times in 22 Posts
|
|
Post Office Model 45
Are certain years of Post Office Model 45's more valuable or attract higher values than others i.e. 1960's versions
vs 1978 limited and last production version? All assumed to be in 99% or above condition with boxes and contents. Thank You for your replies.
|
04-23-2018, 09:57 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Twin Cities
Posts: 2,354
Likes: 4,952
Liked 1,771 Times in 716 Posts
|
|
In my opinion, the earlier the better.
|
04-24-2018, 10:53 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
|
|
All are quite scarce. It's been estimated that about 1,500 pre-Model 45s were made against USPO orders, but most of those seem to have vanished, probably as the result of destruction by the Post Office. So those would probably be the most difficult to find. Some over-runs are stated to have been sold on the open market, mainly through Greenblatt in NYC and H. H. Harris in Chicago. A few (20 is the usual number assumed) with 6" barrels went to the Boston PD for training in the high C 3xxxxx to low C4xxxxx SN range. An unknown quantity (probably 50 or fewer) was made in the C8xxxxx range as Model 45-2 (no 45-1 is known to exist). Some were made in 1978, but not model numbered. Some Model 45 numbered examples are known to exist in the C 4xxxxx and C 6xxxxx ranges.
As you can tell, there is not a great deal of reliable detail known about the .22 M&Ps beyond the fact of their existence as they were never cataloged. Therefore many collectors are not even aware of them, let alone any historical background information. Somewhat like the M&Ps made in .32 Long which are equally (or possibly even more) mysterious. But there are a few of both still to be found, possibly fewer than the number of known Colt Patersons.
Last edited by DWalt; 04-24-2018 at 04:45 PM.
|
04-25-2018, 08:05 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 164
Likes: 62
Liked 46 Times in 22 Posts
|
|
Thank you for your reply. Noticed a ANIB 1960's version recently sold for $5300 plus range. Never saw similar pieces reach that threshold
Thank you, again. Appreciated.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 08:37 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 10,580
Likes: 3,066
Liked 22,562 Times in 5,845 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaser1234
Are certain years of Post Office Model 45's more valuable or attract higher values than others i.e. 1960's versions
vs 1978 limited and last production version? All assumed to be in 99% or above condition with boxes and contents. Thank You for your replies.
|
The most valuable are the 6 factory engraved model 45s that were part of the Smith and Wesson Factory Collection They were sold at auction by Butterfield and Butterfield in 1996.
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
29aholic, aHFo3, bdGreen, crsides, DevilDog72, JayCeeNC, k22fan, LEO918, MCorps0311, Russell Cottle, usm1rifle, Wiregrassguy |
04-25-2018, 10:04 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,792
Likes: 18,502
Liked 22,390 Times in 8,268 Posts
|
|
One just sold over the weekend for $5375, as new in box.
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
|
04-25-2018, 06:20 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 1,823
Liked 13,608 Times in 1,726 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by H Richard
One just sold over the weekend for $5375, as new in box.
|
Ha. And that was just the measly ol' four incher.
Who knew?
enjoy,
bdGreen
|
The Following 10 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 06:30 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
|
|
In a way, it is unfortunate that S&W never made the .22 M&P a catalog item. I suspect they would have probably sold quite a few of them. If anyone has more information to add about them, it would be most welcome here. I am not in the least surprised at the $5300 sales price for one ANIB. And in fact I wouldn't have been surprised had it brought somewhat more.
|
04-25-2018, 08:42 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 444
Likes: 67
Liked 256 Times in 100 Posts
|
|
I bought # C883573 new in 1978 from Jensen's Guns in Tucson, just thought it was a cool gun. -- Just for giggles, I lettered it in 2013, It shipped June 12, 1978 to Lathrop Shooters Supply, Tucson, AZ.
Lathrop's was the distributor for Jensen's as I recall, both are now long gone.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 08:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty37874
I bought # C883573 new in 1978 from Jensen's Guns in Tucson, just thought it was a cool gun. -- Just for giggles, I lettered it in 2013, It shipped June 12, 1978 to Lathrop Shooters Supply, Tucson, AZ.
Lathrop's was the distributor for Jensen's as I recall, both are now long gone.
|
On my list is another M45 with a close SN, C883652. But I have no other information about it - shipping date or to where shipped.
|
04-25-2018, 09:14 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 4,634
Likes: 2,805
Liked 4,156 Times in 1,126 Posts
|
|
Send it back and have it nickled!!!
GF
__________________
SWCA #2420
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 09:22 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 1,823
Liked 13,608 Times in 1,726 Posts
|
|
The C883XXX guns were not 'manufactured' in 1978. The frames were taken off the shelf and assembled, per Roy Jinks.
A few, like colt_saa has pictured, were chosen to be sent out for class 'A' engraving and nickel plated. They didn't all get the same exact engraving pattern either. I believe Tom Freyburg? was the engraver.
They were dispatched in a couple of different ways. I believe that Smith auctioned one off and B&B auctioned the rest. B&B auctioned blue steel guns also.
Now, there were only 135 C883XXX guns left to clear out. I know that other C883XXX guns will prove out as having been shipped in the 60's. The frames were all built in the 60's.
They put them together and did not model mark the frames on the ones that were shipped in 1978.
So, to answer the original posters question...
Condition is the key.
Of course the four screw guns, along with condition, will command probably a 10% premium over a 'like' condition three screw.
And, as has already been declared, there aren't any Smith and Wesson Model 45-1's.
We did a round table about that very issue a number of years back with Jim S., Rick N., David C., and all those with skin in the Model 45 game. Totally agreed, none exist.
enjoy,
bdGreen
Last edited by bdGreen; 04-25-2018 at 09:46 PM.
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 09:31 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 1,823
Liked 13,608 Times in 1,726 Posts
|
|
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 09:38 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 1,823
Liked 13,608 Times in 1,726 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
In a way, it is unfortunate that S&W never made the .22 M&P a catalog item. I suspect they would have probably sold quite a few of them. If anyone has more information to add about them, it would be most welcome here. I am not in the least surprised at the $5300 sales price for one ANIB. And in fact I wouldn't have been surprised had it brought somewhat more.
|
They sat on the shelf for twenty years.
The K model adjustable sighted guns were a big hit.
I don't think that Smith should have made the move to openly market a fixed sighted .22. Sell some? Yes. Sell thousands, I don't believe so.
I have watched these guns rise in pricing for quite a while.
I was still a little shell shocked when the gavel fell.
That gun was stellar in all respects and had a little extra paperwork that I don't even own.
Buyer got a winner. Seller did too.
bdGreen
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-25-2018, 09:44 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 1,823
Liked 13,608 Times in 1,726 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty37874
I bought # C883573 new in 1978 from Jensen's Guns in Tucson, just thought it was a cool gun. -- Just for giggles, I lettered it in 2013, It shipped June 12, 1978 to Lathrop Shooters Supply, Tucson, AZ.
Lathrop's was the distributor for Jensen's as I recall, both are now long gone.
|
Just a little bit of trivia.
My C883515 shipped in February of 1966.
Goes to show ya.
You never know.
"both are long gone". What about the gun?
bdGreen
|
04-25-2018, 09:44 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,835
Likes: 5,161
Liked 5,242 Times in 2,483 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdGreen
[...] And no, I won't ship this unfired, unturned six inch gun back for a nickel finish. I will do it myself in my garage. bdGreen
|
Main Street Auto Body Repair's old bumper chrome tanks have plenty of length for a 6".
|
04-26-2018, 12:23 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 667
Likes: 268
Liked 1,135 Times in 368 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan
Main Street Auto Body Repair's old bumper chrome tanks have plenty of length for a 6".
|
Before stainless revolvers were available, those of us who worked on the coast (Port Aransas) fought a constant battle against corrosion. Another deputy's blue model 58 needed refinishing and he was considering nickle. A guy who owned a shop that chrome plated bumpers told him he could put a thick chrome finish on it and he would never have to worry about rust again. He was correct. The last time I saw it, it was the shiniest paper weight I have ever seen. The guy put a nice thick coat of chrome over a thinner coat of copper. Unfortunately, he didn't know you were supposed to disassemble it first.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-26-2018, 03:55 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sunny Florida, USA
Posts: 1,831
Likes: 126
Liked 4,147 Times in 818 Posts
|
|
Gentlemen:
The full story of the Model 45 revolvers has yet to be told. I think it would make an excellent subject for an article in the S&WCA Journal.
I'd volunteer but am already up to my eyeballs in Victory Model projects. Perhaps another S&WCA Member with an affection for the Model 45 could be persuaded to undertake authorship of such an article. I am certain that it would be very well received by Smith collectors.
__________________
Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215
|
04-26-2018, 04:41 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
|
|
That would be a good project for someone with access to the records. I'd throw research about the .32 Long M&Ps into the same pot.
|
04-26-2018, 09:23 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 444
Likes: 67
Liked 256 Times in 100 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdGreen
Just a little bit of trivia.
My C883515 shipped in February of 1966.
Goes to show ya.
You never know.
"both are long gone". What about the gun?
bdGreen
|
bd
Believe it or not, the gun still resides in my safe, it has not been shot by me, nor have I turned the cylinder since I have owned it, which is since new. -- BTW, it is a non model marked, (except for on the box.)
On the letter, Roy called it a non modeled 45 .22 M&P
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-27-2018, 12:01 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 4,585
Liked 7,598 Times in 1,448 Posts
|
|
This is one of my favorite guns to shoot. I really do wonder why the .22 M&P wasn't a cataloged item.
This is my 4 inch 4 screw pre-Model 45 serial number C3602xx. It has a 26 painted on the bottom of the stocks that I suppose is a rack number. I've not letter this revolver but guess with the four screw frame and no model number that it was manufactured in 1957-58. The serial numbers frame, cylinder, barrel, ejector and grips all match.
For sure it is great little shooter.
__________________
Bill Bates
Last edited by Bill Bates; 04-27-2018 at 12:50 AM.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-27-2018, 12:06 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
|
|
"BTW, it is a non model marked, (except for on the box.) On the letter, Roy called it a non modeled 45 .22 M&P"
I believe those in the C8xxxxx range had no model number stamped in the yoke area. Does the box say it's 45-2 or just 45? It might be interesting to know the various features it has - I would assume the same as the 10-5 (1962) in .38 Special.
|
04-27-2018, 12:19 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
|
|
"This is my 4 inch 4 screw pre-Model 45 serial number C3601xx. It has a 26 painted on the bottom of the stocks that I suppose is a rack number. I've not letter this revolver but guess with the four screw frame and no model number that it was manufactured in 1957-58. The serial numbers frame, cylinder, barrel, ejector and grips all match."
One would guess that SN probably shipped (or at least was manufactured) sometime in 1956, as I show several pre-Model 10s numbered in the upper C 35xxxx range which were. RH or LH extractor rod thread? It almost looks as though it could be LH, but I can't tell. It shouldn't have been LH in 1956. I think the fish hook hammer style disappeared around 1955-56 (not sure about that), but yours has it. That one is worthy of a letter, may be an original USPO gun.
Last edited by DWalt; 04-27-2018 at 12:28 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-27-2018, 01:03 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 4,585
Liked 7,598 Times in 1,448 Posts
|
|
The ejector rod has right hand threads.
One of these days I do need to get some letters done but it is kind of down on my to do list. A have a couple others that are letter worthy but all are revolvers on my I'm never sell them list.
They are worthy of a little history check but honestly where they were shipped isn't all that important to me but maybe it might be important to my heirs.
__________________
Bill Bates
|
04-28-2018, 05:16 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 444
Likes: 67
Liked 256 Times in 100 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
"BTW, it is a non model marked, (except for on the box.) On the letter, Roy called it a non modeled 45 .22 M&P"
I believe those in the C8xxxxx range had no model number stamped in the yoke area. Does the box say it's 45-2 or just 45? It might be interesting to know the various features it has - I would assume the same as the 10-5 (1962) in .38 Special.
|
There is no model number stamped in the yoke
The box just has 45, no dash written in the model number area
There is "RJ-2" written in the Special Features area on the lid
4", Blue, standard trigger & hammer, magna type stocks, standard paper work and tools in box, of course, no manual
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|