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04-24-2018, 07:30 PM
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DOB on .38-44
The serial # is S-67xxx. What year was it produced? I haven’t bought it .... yet.
What is the serial number range and year range for “Transitional “ models?
Last edited by policerevolvercollector; 04-24-2018 at 07:35 PM.
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04-24-2018, 08:00 PM
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Probably 1947. Maybe 1946. Shipping date, not production date.
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04-24-2018, 08:07 PM
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Almost certainly it shipped sometime in 1946. I have listed three other .38/44 SNs in the S67xxx range which did. But I can't tell you whether early, middle, or late 1946. There is no good definition of "Transitional" but some collectors consider it to cover those guns produced during the first few years after WWII ended, i.e., made during S&Ws transition from wartime to peacetime production. I do not like the term as it lacks any semblance of precision. Regardless, that one would seem to meet the foregoing definition of being "Transitional."
Last edited by DWalt; 04-24-2018 at 08:18 PM.
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04-24-2018, 08:52 PM
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The Transitional, post-war S&Ws were those manufactured in the early post war years, from 1945 through 1949 on some, but guidelines for "Transition" models are not strictly by serial number but by action types, hammers, barrel types, LERK and / or LERK relief cut out in barrel (sometimes present with a non-LERK) mechanical differences and more.
While the lower numbers surely are Transitions, the cut off serial numbers are unique and different on certain models over others. The Model of 1950 ended any controversy of whether or not it was a Transition and / or what variation of the Transition.
Your .38-44 is a very early post war and surely "is" a Transition model.
The same pre-war serial number range on the N frames continued post-war with the addition of the "S" prefix.
The latest (highest Serial Number) pre-war N Frames I have are both a .38-44 HD and a .38-44 Outdoorsman in the 600xx number range while the lowest post war N frame I have is a .44 Military at S630xx (NIB).
I'm sure other members could help narrow the gap on the pre-war and post war Serial numbers that I've posted.
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Last edited by model3sw; 04-24-2018 at 08:58 PM.
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04-24-2018, 08:54 PM
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Since the early 1970s, the collectors I knew and/or conversed with had a very definite definition for K and N frame Transition guns:
A Transition K or N frame gun is a LONG Action gun made after WW II with the modern safety hammer block.
The gun could have a large knob or small knob. It could have a one-line or four-line address.
BUT, it had to have the LONG action and the late hammer block.
A guy I had never met or spoken to could call me from six states away and say:
"I have a Transition 38 HD, blue 5" small knob, 4 line..." and I would know exactly what he meant, and what he had.
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04-24-2018, 09:44 PM
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"A Transition K or N frame gun is a LONG Action gun made after WW II with the modern safety hammer block. The gun could have a large knob or small knob. It could have a one-line or four-line address.BUT, it had to have the LONG action and the late hammer block."
OK. Then let's be precise and and drop the term "Transition" and substitute "Post WWII with long action" instead.
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04-24-2018, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
"A Transition K or N frame gun is a LONG Action gun made after WW II with the modern safety hammer block. The gun could have a large knob or small knob. It could have a one-line or four-line address.BUT, it had to have the LONG action and the late hammer block."
OK. Then let's be precise and and drop the term "Transition" and substitute "Post WWII with long action" instead.
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You do what you want to.
I will.
If you call me and say "I have Post WWII with long action", I'll say "Sounds like a nice Transition Gun."
Like I said, people I've talked to have understood the term since the 70s, so I'll just ride this horse on into my sunset.
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04-24-2018, 10:20 PM
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OK. Then let's be precise and and drop the term "Transition" and substitute "Post WWII with long action" instead
I don't think that is the best way to describe those particular guns, because the "long action" is not the only thing they were transitioning away from.
They were also "transitioning" away from the 1 line address frames, the barrels with the large cut out for the LERK and the LERKs themselves as they used up all of pre WWII parts.
I have had a short action gun with a barrel that had a cut out for a LERK - but I would hesitate to call that a true transitional gun.
So your point may be well taken - but I still like the term "transitional" because the term tells the story of how S&W used all their parts before a complete "transition" to the new designs.
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04-24-2018, 10:36 PM
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I don't remember when I first heard the term 'transitional' to describe the early post-WWII guns, but it was probably during the 20+ years I lived in New England. Way before this forum was ever conceived of, and before Supica & Nahas published the first edition of The Standard Catalog.
And now it's become a recognized and accepted term - to all but one person? Hmmm....
Mark
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04-26-2018, 10:29 PM
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Well, I totally agree with Lee. As for Heavy Duties, their Transition guns are between S62400 and S75700. The majority of N frame transitions were HDs. There were 135 or so 357s, 1200 44s, and 2600 Outdoorsman (this is off the top of my head) and between S72000 and S75514 all the N frames were HDs. There have not been any short actions found in this range. The common factor as Lee has stated is they have had long actions and pre war style hammer and trigger minus the patent markings. And to me the definition of transition is the progression of something from what it was to what it is to be. As Smith and Wesson was coming up with changes they implemented them as they had usually used up old parts. The change from a one line address to a 4 line address was in the S68000 range. All transition 5 inch HDs have the large ejector rod knob. The 5 inch barrel HDs did not get the small ejector rod knob until the 1950 model. Well, I hope this helps as to what the N frame transition was all about.
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04-27-2018, 01:49 PM
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I can go to my notes and get you the serial number/date of some other changes. Some changes noted were when the 4" HDs went to the small ejector rod knob, when they started flush fitting the hammer stud etc. They only made 95 6.5" Barrel Transitions and they had the 1 line address, large ejector rod knob and pronounced hammer stud "dish" from the specimens that have survived. It would be great to go back in time and ask S&W why they only made this many 6.5" HD transitions! Now if you look at the Transition 38/44 Outdoorsmans, I think you will find all of them have a 1 line address and large ejector rod knob and probably the hammer stud "Dish" and they were found in the S69000-S71000 serial number range. My theory on these is that S&W had soft fitted these before the war and then disassembled them and put them in the safe until after the war and then changed out the hammer and trigger and finished them and that is why the ejector rod was still the large even though they had changed it for the 4" HD. But as we see, there is not rhyme or reason to how changes were applied thru the transition period 1946-1950.
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