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Old 05-03-2018, 12:29 AM
KneverKnew KneverKnew is offline
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I got several SW revolvers at a local auction. I am posting them individually to keep things from getting cluttered. I don't have the revolvers in hand yet so I am providing the pictures and information below that was provided by the auction company. Please advise if I made a good buy or did I make a big mistake. Also, I'd appreciate any estimates as to what the actual value of the guns might be, so I can know if I got skunked or not. Thanks.

US Model 1917 S&W Army .45

Arsenal mark on top left side of frame. Matching frame and cylinder numbers 10422.
Model: US Army model 1917
Caliber / Gauge: .45
Barrel Length: 5.5"
Condition: Good. Pitting on left side of frame and cylinder. Frame and cylinder have been sanded and reblued. Barrel and grips have been replaced. Bright bore with good rifling.






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Old 05-03-2018, 12:35 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Considering the re-blue and the extreme pitting, I would put a value of $500 on it. Also, the barrel has been replaced with one made in 1950 or later. Collectors value is gone, but it should be a good shooter.
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:42 AM
KneverKnew KneverKnew is offline
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I appreciate the cander. I knew the barrel, rebluing and pitting were a zero for collecting, but I really wanted a good shooting 1917. My cousin has an original that was his dads. I've always wanted one.

Do I have to use the half moon clips with 45 acp in the cylinder or not?
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Old 05-03-2018, 01:22 AM
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Regarding the clips. I use the Rimz poly clips all are of 6 round capacity. In the instructions you get with the clips you have to file down what looks like bumps on the inside of them. Takes about 5 minutes with a sharp file. Then test fit as to make sure they fit properly. No de mooner is required. kinda neat to see the fully loaded clip plop into the cylinder of my 1937 Brazilian contract S&W revolver.Basically the same as your model of 1917 revolver. Frank
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:26 AM
merl67 merl67 is offline
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As you did not say how much you gave no wy of knowing if it was a good buy. That one could be a great shooter, or one to make a belly gun out of.
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Old 05-03-2018, 04:01 AM
RdrBill RdrBill is offline
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Sir.
I would suggest you do a lot of research before you buy them. You then have an understanding of the various values of these guns. The internet is full of pricing info on guns. Asking and selling prices can be found easily.
You will learn that condition, age and originality will set the price of a gun.
Buying without knowing the value is not the best way to buy guns.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:17 AM
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If you paid $400 or under, you didn't get hurt. The great condition original stocks are worth 1/3 of that. Is the right side grip numbered on the backside?

The extractor rod was also changed to accomodate the un-notched barrel of the post war 1950 Military Model. It's not fitted properly however, and the reason the front locking bolt is sticking out so far.

In answer to your question; yes, it can be fired with or w/o 1/2 moon clips. but w/o clips, if the cases don't fall out the extractor will not extract them. You can also shoot 45 Auto Rim and you won't have to fuss with clips for the cases to eject.

My thoughts if I bought it for simple improvements to have a proper 1917 vintage look:

1] Strip the blue off the hammer and trigger with Naval Jelly, but do not polish. The factory never blued those parts.

2] Get the cyl blued.

3] Install a proper mushroom extractor rod knob and notch the barrel for it.


Cylinder hold open detent:
Military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room. I've seen many that at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost, probably when someone removed the yoke who did not know they were there.
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Old 05-03-2018, 06:33 AM
S&WsRsweet S&WsRsweet is online now
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I'm no expert and the local gun guys love me as they know I will pay too much for a gun I like in a heartbeat ,now personaly I am having an affair with 44s without my fist love 32/20s knowing it but if I were looking a 45 to carry and use I wouldn't hesitate at 4 to 5 hundred . Now keep in mind when I say carry and use I'm not talking concealed carry about town ect I talking extended anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks of woods rambling rough camping carrying all equipment ect on foot rain cold sweat heat not the kind of thing you want to expose a collector gun to that would be a great candidate for such or a great fighting self defense gun .I wouldn't change a thing except the grips as they are too nice to get messed up I probabaly cowboy it up with some Grasshorns and carry it ,shoot it might even drop it but heck it's rugged .Enjoy it do t worry about cost ,value ect as quoting a famous member here " it's only money "For my purposes I would probabaly keep the lanyard ring and add some para cord to it but like I said that's just how I am .Oh yea I wanted to add a handful of tools and small kit of parts and a little know how you can keep that gun going for years .

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Old 05-03-2018, 07:51 AM
KneverKnew KneverKnew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
If you paid $400 or under, you didn't get hurt. The great condition original stocks are worth 1/3 of that. Is the right side grip numbered on the backside?

The extractor rod was also changed to accomodate the un-notched barrel of the post war 1950 Military Model. It's not fitted properly however, and the reason the front locking bolt is sticking out so far.

In answer to your question; yes, it can be fired with or w/o 1/2 moon clips. but w/o clips, if the cses don't fall out the extractor will not extract them. You can also shoot 45 Auto Rim and you won't have to fuss with clips for the cases to eject.

My thoughts if I bought it for simple improvements to have a proper 1917 vintage look:

1] Strip the blue off the hammer and trigger with Naval Jelly, but do not polish. The factory never blued those parts.

2] Get the cyl blued.

3] Install a proper mushroom extractor rod knob and notch the barrel for it.


Cylinder hold open detent:
Military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room. I've seen many that at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost, probably when someone removed the yoke who did not know they were there.
Many thanks for all the information and suggestions. I probably paid a bit much for this 1917 at $550, but like I said, I wanted it for a good shooter, not as a collectors show piece. I certainly couldn’t pay the premiums I’m seeing for original correct 1917’s. I will look into making the modifications you mentioned to try and “correct” it as much as possible. I’m not scared to try and notch the barrel as suggested but will need to find detailed pictures and do some research first. Also need to find the mushroom cap you mentioned. The fun is just beginning!
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:25 AM
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I think it closed at $550?
I followed that auction and bid a couple hundred bucks as a project frame. The hammer price + buyer's premium + shipping + FFL transfer fee + background check put you way underwater on that one. I have a C&R so I would have saved on the last two. Still, way too high for a heavily pitted, refinished gun with post-war barrel. It might be worth $350 to someone who wants a fun shooter. With that heavy pitting, I would have it blasted and ceracoated and shoot it as-is. Any more money put into it will never increase its value.

You could add an aftermarket rear adjustable target sight. They mount by replacing the upper sideplate screw. I have a couple spares. Let me know if you are interested.
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:02 AM
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For a gun that was cobbled together from parts, you paid way too much. Putting more money into it would be a waste. Enjoy it as shooter.

Last edited by sodacan; 05-03-2018 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 05-03-2018, 09:27 AM
KneverKnew KneverKnew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgt4570 View Post
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. I think it closed at $550?
I followed that auction and bid a couple hundred bucks as a project frame. The hammer price + buyer's premium + shipping + FFL transfer fee + background check put you way underwater on that one. I have a C&R so I would have saved on the last two. Still, way too high for a heavily pitted, refinished gun with post-war barrel. It might be worth $350 to someone who wants a fun shooter. With that heavy pitting, I would have it blasted and ceracoated and shoot it as-is. Any more money put into it will never increase its value.

You could add an aftermarket rear adjustable target sight. They mount by replacing the upper sideplate screw. I have a couple spares. Let me know if you are interested.
I do appreciate the honesty. I have an FFL and am local so didn’t pay shipping, Ffl fee or tax. I am learning. Just takes trying I guess. I did by this particular one to keep as shooter knowing the issues with it. Still I know I paid too much for this one with its issues but could never pay full price for original. Thnks again.
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:40 AM
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I'd hardly call your gun "cobbled together"! It's only had a barrel change and the usual grip change. You'll like some later vintage Magnas or targets a lot better anyway for a shooter.

SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 (or 7, on Triple Locks only) matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 (and a few as much as 3 years later).
NOTE: Observing serial #s for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, cleaning, and an attitude that it is there!

1. Gun butt – (or fore strap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt)

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star – backside facing cyl

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only - on back, (except most post war target stocks because individual fitting not required); stamped, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material.

7. Triple Locks only: rear side of middle lock cam plate


The notches in the barrel are very simple to cut/file with no precision dimensions. Once you have a mushroom knob, just file and deepen the notches until the knob clears when the cyl is closed.
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:46 AM
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If the grips aren't numbered to the revolver, you could sell those to buy other grips and the ejector rod with the mushroom head.
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:03 PM
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Check the ejector rod thread direction. The older mushroom ejector rods are right hand thread. The one on your gun may be also but make sure before you replace it. I don't see the telltale gutter between the knurling and rod shaft that was put on left hand threaded rods. Also, the cylinder face will have an L stamp for left hand threads if it was replaced.
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:37 PM
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Just a guess, but perhaps the cylinder came with the bbl and were both from a 1950 and used to update the 1917 or rebuild it from an abused frame.

The reddish color of the reblued cylinder reminds me of the later mfg ones. That and the ejector rod end being the later style.
The cylinder may have come with the ejector and ejector rod in place as they often do when found as 'parts'.
Maybe the crane came with the cylinder too. Looks a little newer than the rest of the frame in the pic but that might just be that,,the pic.

A check of the ser#s on the back side of the cyl & the crane will tell in a hurry if they are orig or replacement.

As far as the gun itself,,the grips look like a $200 set to me unless I'm missing something.

The pitting on the frame is not really that bad from a refinishers standpoint if you wanted to re-do it. Not saying it'd be a money worthy effort from a profit making angle, but it certainly isn't something that is in the 'all is lost' catagory.
A belt grinder and capable guiding hands can remove easily having the surface back to WW2 rebuild look in no time. Going further to a higher polish for an orig look takes more work and time but that's just the nature of the trade.

It's a great project gun to re-do or rebuild into something else. Most N frames are. Lots of ways to go or simply go easy on it and fix the lock up issue at the front and any small cosmetic issue and then just shoot the heck out of it.
All depends on what you want it to look like, what you can stand to look at and what you want to spend.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 05-04-2018, 06:52 AM
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I still say don't worry about the cost and money unless you are in the gun business .I have bought a couple of guns thru the years and honestly some I bought cheap some I paid too much but the ones I liked I have kept and enjoyed so you have to look at your guns like any form of entertainment fun costs money sometimes for the price of a movie and a meal each weak or pay per view sporting events you can obtain quite a gun collection thru the years. If you run with wild women though don't give that up until you are like me and just have to some things even override guns lol . Just kidding seriously you seem to like the gun for what it is just get some ammo and enjoy it get your money's worth that way . Look I have an old model 10 beater I bought for a couple hundred bucks I probabaly ran a thousand reloads thru it in a year or so then I sold it to a guy for 150 bucks but just think I got several hundred dollars of fun out of that gun . I'm a different kind of expert I'm not looking to make a profit don't care what my kids sell em for when Im gone I like guns ,they are my hobbie and enjoyment now some of em love like my great uncles o,d 32/20 money can't buy it ,some of em I thought I would love but didn't and guess what they got traded or sold but I don't sit around and thing oh goodness I lost two hundred dollars on that gun if two hi dred bucks makes that much difference you should have bought gold or silver and stashed it or put it in a money market or a Federaly Insured savings account . I'm not knocking guns as an investment some do quite well but if they used the time they spend getting educated enough to do quite well they will tell you they could have done quite well with any other investment . Mark this down as education yea that's it like college but a heck of a lot more fun and no hangovers lol. Seriously man trust me ENJOY stop worrying about the deal other deals will come along and you will be more educated and you will get your chance to say hey guys look what I got for small $$$ and everyone will smile and say great just great why didn't I see that to ourselves of course ,but until then stick with us ,buy you some moon clips and ammo and take that gun to tne range who knows someone there like me might see it and start throwing hundred dollar bills at cause they just have to have it but being it isn't collector grade be sure to at least tell everyone how well it handles and shoots ect and how much you love it as marketing is just as important as the product for instance if you were going to try to sell it here's how . 45 caliber revolver w moon clips ,excellent shooter ,reliable and rugged easy to learn and if you run out of ammo you can beat **** out of any survivors with a heck of a club lets see ya do that with ya Glock and it still be useable . I'm giving you tne add free .Enjoy the gun stop worrying about the deal.
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Old 05-04-2018, 02:11 PM
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S&WsRsweet ,
This made my day. Yes, actually, I have an FFL and am trying to build my business up, hence trying my hand at the auction. Obviously I have a lot to learn, and already have over the past week or two. I did buy the 1917 with the pure intent to keep it and shoot the **** out of it, so I am happy with it in that respect. I know I paid too much for it, but it will be a wonderful club, as you suggested, when the ammo is gone. Thanks!!
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:04 PM
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Ok. Going to try and hit the high points of a number of comments, observations and questions. I pulled the gun apart and here are my findings. Serial numbers on back of cylinder and yoke match bottom of frame grip. So I assume original to gun. I was wondering about the reddish color of the cylinder. Any more explanation?

The grips DO NOT have the number stamped into them on the inside. One grip DOES have the serial number written on it's inside surface in pencil. So any idea if these are original 1917 grips, aftermarkets, or what? Are they really worth $200??

Even though I know I paid too much for this pistol, any worries went out the door when I watched my 12 year old shooting it today. It was his first time with a big .45 acp and I think the revolver made it a bit easier on him. He actually hit the target, an empty small propane cylinder out at 40 yards too!!! Sent that thing 20 feet into the air. I guess it wasn't "completely" empty after all.
I did notice the trigger pull is a bit heavier than those found on the other SW 38's I've shot.

Just an aside here, I also picked up a simple old Model 10 with the thin barrel like my dad used to have. I tested it's trigger, and it is the lightest trigger on ANY pistol I've ever tried, both single and double action. I think I posted pictures in another thread, or maybe a different forum. I'm get confused easy these days.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:24 PM
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The cylinder is heat treated and takes a re-blue differently than the rest of the gun. The purple is common when re-blued if the refinisher is not too savvy about bluing it properly. With matching serial # it's the original which it looks like anyway with the heavy chamfers on the front of the flutes.

You say the grip does have the serial penciled, but didn't specifically say if it matched the gun #. The grips are from before 1930 when stamping the # was re-introduced. They are likely original to gun, but someone could have written the # on them if replaced; they're awfully good condition compaered to the gun.

We already know the gun predates 1922-23 because it lacks the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp on right front of the frame.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
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The cylinder is heat treated and takes a re-blue differently Than the rest of the gun. The purple is common when re-blued if the refinisher is not too savvy about bluing it properly. With matching serial # it's the original which it looks like anyway with the heavy chamfers on the front of the flutes.

You say the grip does have the serial penciled, but didn't specifically say if it matched the gun #. The grips are from before 1930 when stamping the # was re-introduced. They are likely original to gun, but someone could have written the # on them if replaced; they're awfully good condition compaered to the gun.

We already know the gun predates 1922-23 because it lacks the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp on right front of the frame.
I just keep learning new stuff. So now I know it predates 1922-23. Yes, the penciled in number on the inside of the one grip panel matches the other numbers.

So, just out of curiosity, how hard would it be to install an original 1917 barrel? Not that I can go buy one. But, just curious of the difficulty level. Looks like punch the pin out and slide out barrel, unless it's press fit, or threaded.
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Old 05-05-2018, 02:37 AM
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The barrel is not a difficult change but it is threaded.
And you'd need a Mushroom ejector rod to look right.

Neither are simple to find but they are around. The barrel still wouldn't have a matching serial # however. And wouldn't add as much value as it would cost you because of the pitting on the gun.

I would just add the mushroom knob because it would make it look right. The barrel on it is better than any replacement barrel you are likely to find. Although it would have the proper "PROPERTY OF US ARMY" roll marl underneath.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
I just keep learning new stuff. So now I know it predates 1922-23.
Your 1917, serial number 45444, was made in April 1918. So, it turned 100 last month.

You say you have an FFL, but you don't appear to be a gunsmith. To change the barrel, you will need a vice and frame wrench to keep from warping the frame due to torque. YouTube has quite a selection of videos on gunsmithing and there is one on making a frame wrench. Also, Kuhnhausen published a S&W shop manual that I find invaluable. I recommend it.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:22 AM
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Sometimes strange things happen to 1917 S&W's

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Old 05-14-2018, 02:24 PM
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Just looking around on Gunbroker and came across a Model 1917 .45 revolver Brazilian Contract that looks to be all original, but the price is still pretty low around $350, but still 6 days left. Are these desirable? What would the expected price be for this one?
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:11 PM
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Just looking around on Gunbroker and came across a Model 1917 .45 revolver Brazilian Contract that looks to be all original, but the price is still pretty low around $350, but still 6 days left. Are these desirable? What would the expected price be for this one?

There were two shipments made to the Brazilians. The first in the 1930s is the most desirable, to me anyway. These were built in the '30s and have the square notch rear sight. The shipment in the 1940s used WW I surplus frames.

Most Brazilians are pretty rough as to finish. Many folks feel they were dumped in barrels and shipped back to the States.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy View Post
Your 1917, serial number 45444, was made in April 1918. So, it turned 100 last month.

You say you have an FFL, but you don't appear to be a gunsmith. To change the barrel, you will need a vice and frame wrench to keep from warping the frame due to torque. YouTube has quite a selection of videos on gunsmithing and there is one on making a frame wrench. Also, Kuhnhausen published a S&W shop manual that I find invaluable. I recommend it.
Well, I suppose gunsmithing is something I am working on as well.I have a bench vice and other tools. I've built numerous AR's from scratch, but that's like building with legos, so doesn't really count. Working on old Mausers, revolvers and other classic firearms is much more entailed and requires more specialized equipment. I'm trying to learn as fast as I can.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:29 PM
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You know what? After some 70 years of experience, I have found that ugly girls and ugly guns are more fun than beautiful ones.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:19 PM
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Ugly is ugly, but that 45 is just plain UGLY! I would not even stop and look at it. Pay money for it , no way.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:57 PM
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Just looking around on Gunbroker and came across a Model 1917 .45 revolver Brazilian Contract that looks to be all original, but the price is still pretty low around $350, but still 6 days left. Are these desirable? What would the expected price be for this one?
As MG said, they can be pretty rough, but not always. I once saw one in such awful shape I wouldn't have paid $100 for it (I think they were asking $400). I would say $350 is near the low end of the price range, assuming it's in good working order and not too pitted. Really nice ones can go for $500, $600 or even more.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:41 AM
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It's rare to find one under $500 these days no matter how bad it looks. I acquired this one recently in a trade for an attractive price. It's been refinished but looks pretty darn good to this redneck.



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Old 05-15-2018, 10:07 AM
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KK:

That 1917 would look soooo good with some hand-filling stocks, the barrel chopped to 3" and a ramp front sight! I wouldn't worry too much about the finish.

I'd stitch up a cross-draw for it pronto and have that thing on a belt in nothing flat!
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:29 PM
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Carry in my Model 1917 on a belt brings up a very interesting thought. I've been looking online for various replacement parts for this pistol, specifically the Yoke stop pin and spring. Yes, I finally lost them, or should I say, my son lost them when moving the bowl I had them safely sitting in. Anyway, I see various other caliber cylinders associated with this pistol. The one I am most interested in is the 45 Long Colt. This is supposed to be the same thing as an N Frame right? Is there any reason I couldn't simply swap the 45 ACP cylinder for a 45 LC? I suppose if the barrel is actually designed for the .45 ACP, being .451, that could cause problems. What do you guys say? It would be a great backup defensive sidearm for hunting. We have wild hogs and black bear in our woods.

Anyone have an extra Yoke stop pin and spring? Or know where to find them in stock?
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:04 PM
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For a gun that was cobbled together from parts, you paid way too much. Putting more money into it would be a waste. Enjoy it as shooter.
soda can IS ON THE MONEY. LEAVE THE GUN THE WAY IT IS, AND SHOOT THE SNOTS OUT OF IT.......

ITS A FORMIDABLE CALIBER, THAT CAN BE LOADED WITH PROPER AMMO, FOR PROTECTION IN THE WOODS, OR AGAINST 2 LEGGED CRITTERS. YOU CAN THROW IT IN A GLOVE BOX, TOOLBOX, TACKLEBOX, ETC---AND NOT BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FINISH ON THE GUN.....

IF YOUR ITCH IS NOT YET SCRATCHED, EDUCATE YOURSELF, SAVE UP SOME MAD MONEY, AND BUY A NICER, UNMOLESTED, EXAMPLE. AT THAT POINT, YOU CAN SELL THIS ONE--OR KEEP IT FOR KNOCKING' AROUND....
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:15 PM
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soda can IS ON THE MONEY. LEAVE THE GUN THE WAY IT IS, AND SHOOT THE SNOTS OUT OF IT.......

ITS A FORMIDABLE CALIBER, THAT CAN BE LOADED WITH PROPER AMMO, FOR PROTECTION IN THE WOODS, OR AGAINST 2 LEGGED CRITTERS. YOU CAN THROW IT IN A GLOVE BOX, TOOLBOX, TACKLEBOX, ETC---AND NOT BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FINISH ON THE GUN.....

IF YOUR ITCH IS NOT YET SCRATCHED, EDUCATE YOURSELF, SAVE UP SOME MAD MONEY, AND BUY A NICER, UNMOLESTED, EXAMPLE. AT THAT POINT, YOU CAN SELL THIS ONE--OR KEEP IT FOR KNOCKING' AROUND....
I doubt I would ever be able to sell it for what I bought it for, so most likely will keep it as a shooter, which is what I bought if for anyway. The only thing I'd like to do is lighten the trigger pull. DA pull ERRORS out my Lyman trigger pull meter. SA pull is right at 7 pounds. I've hear changing the mainspring and rebound spring would do the job. Can I get these from Wolf Springs and do I look for just standard springs? I've heard the light springs can be iffy on ignition.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:25 PM
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Regarding changing the newer center pin/extractor rod for the correct old style with "mushroom cap" I looked them up in Numrich and found two styles.

Extractor Rod, 2-11/16", Stripped, Used (2 Piece Style) (requiring the addition of the mushroom cap, I believe)

and

Extractor Rod, .45 Cal., Early One Piece Style, Used, Blue

which one should I go for?
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:34 PM
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Well, FWIW I got this old 1917 commercial last year and it is just about as pitted and has been bumper-chromed OVER the pitting. It has also had the cylinders reamed deeper for 45LC.

Not very pretty, but it shoots good and I'm not complaining since I got it for $255 OTD. It had rubber grips on it, and no lanyard, so I spent another $35 for a set of period correct grips and a lanyard ring.

I'm happy with it and would be equally happy with the one in the OP for $500
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:54 PM
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"Is there any reason I couldn't simply swap the 45 ACP cylinder for a 45 LC?"

The frame lug is thicker on a 1917, due to the shorter length of the .45 ACP cylinder. A .455 cylinder, rechambered to .45 Colt, can be fitted to a 1917, if a provision is made for the thicker frame lug, such as turning a shallow groove on the .455/.45 Colt cylinder.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneverKnew View Post
Regarding changing the newer center pin/extractor rod for the correct old style with "mushroom cap" I looked them up in Numrich and found two styles.

Extractor Rod, 2-11/16", Stripped, Used (2 Piece Style) (requiring the addition of the mushroom cap, I believe)

and

Extractor Rod, .45 Cal., Early One Piece Style, Used, Blue

which one should I go for?
The correct one for a 1917 is the one piece Rod integral with the knob. Overall length is 2.903" +/-.

If the rod in your gun doesn't have a separate collar, and I don't think it will, because the skinny knob will slip out of the yoke with the cyl from the rear.

Because of the large mushroom knob, the ext rod must be screwed in from the front. So you'll need the separate 3/16" collar shaped like a top hat that goes between the large spring and the rod. But you just cut 3/16" off the back end of your rod for a collar to use.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:05 AM
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The correct one for a 1917 is the one piece Rod integral with the knob. Overall length is 2.903" +/-.

If the rod in your gun doesn't have a separate collar, and I don't think it will, because the skinny knob will slip out of the yoke with the cyl from the rear.

Because of the large mushroom knob, the ext rod must be screwed in from the front. So you'll need the separate 3/16" collar shaped like a top hat that goes between the large spring and the rod. But you just cut 3/16" off the back end of your rod for a collar to use.
I do appreciate the effort to help. But I'm going to have to study your reply a bit to understand it better. Pictures would help, if such things are available?
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:07 AM
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Well, FWIW I got this old 1917 commercial last year and it is just about as pitted and has been bumper-chromed OVER the pitting. It has also had the cylinders reamed deeper for 45LC.

Not very pretty, but it shoots good and I'm not complaining since I got it for $255 OTD. It had rubber grips on it, and no lanyard, so I spent another $35 for a set of period correct grips and a lanyard ring.

I'm happy with it and would be equally happy with the one in the OP for $500
I wished $500 was all I paid.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:12 AM
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Here's a crazy thought. Buy an extra 1917 .45acp cylinder and ream it out an extra 1/16" to chamber some 460 Rowland rounds!!! I have a conversion installed in my Springfield 1911 and it's what I've been carrying in the woods in place of my S&W 629 .44Mag. The only question is can the 1917 take the power of such a round? It gives you 44 mag performance out of what's basically a .45acp case on steroids. My standard 230grain Hornady XTP does 1300 fps from my 1911 conversion. It's a great round.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:33 AM
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I wished $500 was all I paid.
Guess I must have misread something somewhere...

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Originally Posted by KneverKnew View Post
Here's a crazy thought. Buy an extra 1917 .45acp cylinder and ream it out an extra 1/16" to chamber some 460 Rowland rounds!!! I have a conversion installed in my Springfield 1911 and it's what I've been carrying in the woods in place of my S&W 629 .44Mag. The only question is can the 1917 take the power of such a round? It gives you 44 mag performance out of what's basically a .45acp case on steroids. My standard 230grain Hornady XTP does 1300 fps from my 1911 conversion. It's a great round.
IIRC the heat treating wasn't done at the time that the 1917s were built, so the pressure of the 460 would blow the cylinder of a 1917 wide open, wouldn't it? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me...
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:35 AM
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Guess I must have misread something somewhere...


IIRC the heat treating wasn't done at the time that the 1917s were built, so the pressure of the 460 would blow the cylinder of a 1917 wide open, wouldn't it? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me...
Well....dang it. Oh well.
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:39 AM
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Well....dang it. Oh well.
Hold on...the 1917s were the first to have heat treating required by the govt contract. That lead to heat treating all model cyls by 1920.

However, they were designed for the 45 ACP with 19-21,000 pressure.

What pressures do the 460 develop?
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:52 AM
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Hold on...the 1917s were the first to have heat treating required by the govt contract. That lead to heating all model cyls by 1920.

Hoever, they were designed for the 45 ACP with 19-21,000 pressure.

What pressures do the 460 develop?
Good info on the history of heat treating Hondo44. You always seem to bring useful info to the table.

What I'm coming up with Googling it says SAAMI for the 460 Rowland is 38,000 psi.

I wouldn't want to be the one holding a 1917 being exposed to that kind of pressure.

In fact I wouldn't want to be within 25 yards when it went off. I'm kind of a chicken that way

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Old 05-19-2018, 03:04 AM
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I do appreciate the effort to help. But I'm going to have to study your reply a bit to understand it better. Pictures would help, if such things are available?
See the collar (like a little top hat) on the right end of the extractor rod in photo below? That's what you'll need. If it's not a separate piece on your rod, whack it off on the left side of the larger diameter ridge with a dremel tool cut off wheel or a hacksaw. Dress the cut edge with file or stone it smooth and square it up on the cut end.

Slide the ext rod thru the yoke sleeve from the front,
install collar over the threaded end of the rod sticking out the back end of the yoke sleeve,
Install the ctr pin, little spring end first (the way it came out, not like in the photo, that's a TL rod and the opposite of yours) into the ext star shaft inside the cyl hole,
the large spring inside the center hole of the cyl assembly will nest against the collar as you slide the cyl forward onto the yoke sleeve all the way,
now screw the ext rod (right hand threads) into the extractor shaft inside the cyl hole,
now install the yoke in the gun.


Triple Lock extractor rod assembly shown; slightly different from all other Hand Ejector ext. rods.
Photo by Steelslaver
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:35 AM
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Carry in my Model 1917 on a belt brings up a very interesting thought. I've been looking online for various replacement parts for this pistol, specifically the Yoke stop pin and spring. Yes, I finally lost them, or should I say, my son lost them when moving the bowl I had them safely sitting in. Anyway, I see various other caliber cylinders associated with this pistol. The one I am most interested in is the 45 Long Colt. This is supposed to be the same thing as an N Frame right? Is there any reason I couldn't simply swap the 45 ACP cylinder for a 45 LC? I suppose if the barrel is actually designed for the .45 ACP, being .451, that could cause problems. What do you guys say? It would be a great backup defensive sidearm for hunting. We have wild hogs and black bear in our woods.

Anyone have an extra Yoke stop pin and spring? Or know where to find them in stock?
These are too easy to make to hunt for one. Use the shank off of a numbered drill bit that slips easily into the hole in the yoke. Cut off 1/2" and dome one end. Use a Bick lighter spring cut in about half. Install pin with domed end out.

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Old 05-19-2018, 09:51 AM
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These are too easy to make to hunt for one. Use the shank off of a numbered drill bit that slips easily into the hole in the yoke. Cut off 1/2" and dome one end. Use a Bick lighter spring cut in about half. Install pin with domed end out.

Very good idea. I was thinking of just making anpin from something. The spring is actually still inside. Also, I may have stupidly put the detent pin down inside the center of the trigger rebound spring. I saw a video of a guy disassembling his N frame and he said it was a guide pin for the spring. So when I was assembling my 1917 after cleaning I found this 1/2” Long pin I wasn’t sure where it went. Then remembered that video (and forgot about the yoke stop) and put that pin inside the rebound spring. So does the 1917 supposed to have one of those pins inside the rebound spring? Or did I have a brain fart and actually still have my detent pin?
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KneverKnew View Post
Very good idea. I was thinking of just making anpin from something. The spring is actually still inside. Also, I may have stupidly put the detent pin down inside the center of the trigger rebound spring. I saw a video of a guy disassembling his N frame and he said it was a guide pin for the spring. So when I was assembling my 1917 after cleaning I found this 1/2” Long pin I wasn’t sure where it went. Then remembered that video (and forgot about the yoke stop) and put that pin inside the rebound spring. So does the 1917 supposed to have one of those pins inside the rebound spring? Or did I have a brain fart and actually still have my detent pin?
The post WW II target model N frames did indeed use a pin inside of the rebound spring for a trigger stop. The 1917 did not have a trigger stop.
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