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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 05-05-2018, 09:31 AM
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[img]https://s17.postimg.cc/5uu**gtof/IMG_2934.jpg[/img]








2 4823

I found this in another thread referring to this handgun,
"like my .38-44 now-a-.45 Colt Heavy Duty Bowen Arms did for me."

Any idea as to what its value might be??

Last edited by rubiranch; 05-05-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:35 AM
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What is the asking price?
Is any paperwork included?
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:41 AM
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To be clear..... it's a 38/44 converted to .45 long Colt??

So barrel and cylinder were changed out? Just the N-frame left from the 38/44.

Looks like no bark stag grips.

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Old 05-05-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SDH View Post
What is the asking price?
Is any paperwork included?
I need to find out what it's worth before I can come up with an asking price.

Not sure if I have any paperwork for it or not. Still going thru tons of paperwork.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
To be clear..... it's a 38/44 converted to .45Colt??

So barrel and cylinder were changed out? Just the N-frame left from the 38/44.

Looks like no bark stag grips.
I believe that you are 100% correct.

The only thing I really have to go on was this comment that was made referring to this gun.

"like my .38-44 now-a-.45 Colt Heavy Duty Bowen Arms did for me."
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:50 AM
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I would ask the person selling it a lot more questions before trying to settle on a price.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:05 AM
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Welcome to the forum.

I think that we need a little more information before we can answer your questions. Are you trying to sell the gun or buy it? Is the gun in the photos the one you are asking about or is that one that has been modified like the one that you are asking about?

As far as I am concerned, as a purist collector, the collector value is gone as the gun has been modified from its original configuration. So now the audience is limited to those folks that collect or purchase modified guns. To the shooter crowd, the gun may have great appeal due to the modifications but the audience has been cut in half.

I think that we need more information.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III View Post
Welcome to the forum.

I think that we need a little more information before we can answer your questions. Are you trying to sell the gun or buy it? Is the gun in the photos the one you are asking about or is that one that has been modified like the one that you are asking about?

As far as I am concerned, as a purist collector, the collector value is gone as the gun has been modified from its original configuration. So now the audience is limited to those folks that collect or purchase modified guns. To the shooter crowd, the gun may have great appeal due to the modifications but the audience has been cut in half.

I think that we need more information.
Thank you -

Its a gun that I have and want to sell.

It belonged to my brother and I know nothing about it.

Being that it has been modified its value is not listed in a "price guide" or as my friend calls it, the Bible.

I understand that some folks may have zero interest because it has been modified. I am just hoping to get some idea of what it might possibly be worth.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:26 AM
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It was made as a model called the .38 (indicating the bore size)/.44 (N or large frame size) Heavy Duty, likely from just after WW II. This means it was a .38 Special from the factory - a photo of the front or back of the cylinder or barrel would confirm this.

It appears to have the original barrel, as shown by the serial number stamped inside the barrel lug, where the extractor rod sits. If it is a .45 caliber conversion most gunsmiths would have swapped a factory .45 barrel onto it instead of going through the process of reaming out a .38 to .45.

The cylinder appears to be a different shade of blue, which suggests it has been refinished. If it is a .45 (ACP or Colt) cylinder that makes some sense, but sometimes the blue finish on metal parts deteriorates over time and turns "plum".

If it is still a .38 Special I would guess it to be worth in the $600-700 range. If it is a modified to a .45 (ACP or Colt), it may be worth that to someone looking for a shooting (as opposed to collectible) gun.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:32 AM
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Just a WAG but I'd say 750 to 850.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:32 AM
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Looks like the serial number on the barrel matches the frame.Does the number on the rear of the cylinder match?
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:01 AM
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FYI "The Bible" is often used to refer to the Blue Book of Gun Values.

Which is usually out of date by the time it is published...... ie. prices tend to be low...... buyers/Dealers like it cus they can justify low ball offers.....

Looks like the serial # on butt and barrel match....... reamed barrel???....
adds IMO quality of work questions from any buyer ;if you can document it to Bowen it would be a good thing for you ........

also is it .45acp or .45 long colt...... big difference....


Hope Steelslaver sees this thread..... he and IIRC Kieth44 have done a few of these conversions.

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Old 05-05-2018, 11:03 AM
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Around here, being a gun owned by a family member adds value but only to you. Normally such guns were owned by a father or grandfather and many here would never part with a family gun.

That said, I think that murphydog and Old_Cop have given you a good idea on what the gun will bring. If you really don't want to keep it, place an ad in the classified section of the forum with a price and see what the market will bear. If you don't get any takers initially, you might consider asking for best offers and see where that goes.

Good luck.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:11 AM
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Notice that the right side of the barrel is marked "45 COLT CTG".
Did Bowen do this on his conversions?
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubiranch View Post

I found this in another thread referring to this handgun,
"like my .38-44 now-a-.45 Colt Heavy Duty Bowen Arms did for me."

Any idea as to what its value might be??
I would post the link to this thread to help with identification, ect.
Ed
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin View Post
Notice that the right side of the barrel is marked "45 COLT CTG".
Did Bowen do this on his conversions?
I see that with the photo opened in a new window. An interesting conversion but my value guess is about the same, absent a famous name having performed the modification.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:42 AM
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If that was in the case at my local shop for $ 500.00 I would not leave without it . I am a shooter and not a collector so could care less that it is not original , I like it just as it is . Send me a PM when you decide what you need for it as I have been looking for something exactly like this .

I hope your brother gave you this but it does not sound like the case , if not , I am sorry you have lost your brother .I lost my dad last August and am still trying to get his stuff settled . It is not easy to go through his personal items and decide what to keep and what needs to go but he had so much that I don't have room for it all .

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Old 05-05-2018, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin View Post
Notice that the right side of the barrel is marked "45 COLT CTG".
Did Bowen do this on his conversions?
Yes. Bowen Arms did the conversion.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay View Post
Looks like the serial number on the barrel matches the frame.Does the number on the rear of the cylinder match?
The gun is in a safe with a few others. I won't be back there for another week or two and I will check and see, come back and post what I find.

Last edited by rubiranch; 05-05-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubiranch View Post
Yes. Bowen Arms did the conversion.

That probably puts it in a higher price range but I am not sure how much .

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Old 05-05-2018, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Southgate View Post
If that was in the case at my local shop for $ 500.00 I would not leave without it . I am a shooter and not a collector so could care less that it is not original , I like it just as it is . Send me a PM when you decide what you need for it as I have been looking for something exactly like this .

I hope your brother gave you this but it does not sound like the case , if not , I am sorry you have lost your brother .I lost my dad last August and am still trying to get his stuff settled . It is not easy to go through his personal items and decide what to keep and what needs to go but he had so much that I don't have room for it all .

Eddie
Eddie, thank you very much. I will bookmark this and I will let you know when the time comes.

My brother passed away back in Sept.

He was an avid shooter. It surprises me every time I see a gun that he never shot. It must have been tough for him not to shoot them.

But then on the other hand I've found a few that he had two of. One that he never shot and one that he did.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III View Post
Around here, being a gun owned by a family member adds value but only to you. Normally such guns were owned by a father or grandfather and many here would never part with a family gun.

Good luck.
He had way too many for me to ever to ever think about keeping them all.

There are a few that I know meant alot to him and I will keep those and pass them down to my girls.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:07 PM
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Aren't those stocks made of elephant ivory? If so, we are talking big $$ just for them.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
FYI "The Bible" is often used to refer to the Blue Book of Gun Values.

Which is usually out of date by the time it is published...... ie. prices tend to be low...... buyers/Dealers like it cus they can justify low ball offers.....

Looks like the serial # on butt and barrel match....... reamed barrel???....
adds IMO quality of work questions from any buyer ;if you can document it to Bowen it would be a good thing for you ........

also is it .45acp or .45 long colt...... big difference....


Hope Steelslaver sees this thread..... he and IIRC Kieth44 have done a few of these conversions.
The guns that we have that are listed in the Bible and we do decide to sell we will do more research as to what their real value is.

I will find out of it is a .45acp or a .45 long colt and post the answer as soon as I find out which might not be for another week or two.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
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Just a WAG but I'd say 750 to 850.
thanks - my brother was also a cop

thank you for all you did for soo many people
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:16 PM
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I really appreciate all of the comments.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:26 PM
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Being built by Bowen makes a difference,though I don't know by how much
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
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Being built by Bowen makes a difference,though I don't know by how much
Thank you, I'm hoping to find some paperwork to go with it.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:47 PM
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It looks like a Bowen 45HD. The Bowen 45HD conversion typically has the optional "black powder chamfer" on the cylinder and a taller sight blade for .45 cowboy loads. Keep looking for an invoice or written document as it means everything to resale value! The Patrick Grashorn stocks are nice, they look like a custom fit. Looks like the cylinder has been rotated quite a bit indicating a fair amount of use or fondling.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:49 PM
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It won't surprise me if the cylinder has a matching serial number.
If the 'smith (Bowen) was OK with reaming and rifling (or relining) the barrel, reaming the cylinder would be a breeze.
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Old 05-05-2018, 01:03 PM
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I just realized that this may not have been a 38/44 HD in the first place.
It will need a letter to determine if it was a HD or if it was a .44 HE 3rd Model (post-war transitional). The serial number falls in the range of either model.
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Old 05-05-2018, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
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I just realized that this may not have been a 38/44 HD in the first place.
It will need a letter to determine if it was a HD or if it was a .44 HE 3rd Model (post-war transitional). The serial number falls in the range of either model.
The first time my friend looked it over he did not feel that it was a conversion but possibly be what it appears to be.

I am assuming (I know) that the comment that I saw by my brother in another thread that he was referring to this particular handgun.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:45 PM
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Your gun was originally shipped and a 38/44 HD 18 Jul 1946 to Sports Incorporated Chicago IL. If I remember correctly, a Bowen conversion ran around $1800 and if those stocks are ivory, add between $500-1000.
Hope this helps,
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:43 AM
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need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44  
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Thank you for all of the help.

With the help from another forum member I now know exactly what we have here.

This is a Bowen Conversion. The barrel was bored and it has Patrick's stocks.

Its monetary value is no longer of interest to us.

Learning more about my brothers .38-44 H.D./.45 Colt Hamilton Bowen conversion my sister and I have decided that we will keep this one in the family.

Thanks again for all your help.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:13 AM
BAM-BAM BAM-BAM is offline
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Good decision..............family heirlooms........"Priceless"
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:32 AM
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I'm a fan of the .45 Colt cartridge and would love to have a gun like this. I think you've made the right decision. Keep, shoot and enjoy it.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:53 AM
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need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44 need help with the value of a 38-44  
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I think my brother was also a fan of the .45 Colt cartridge as there are quite a few in his collection.

Its tough not knowing which ones were his favorites.
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