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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 05-05-2018, 11:18 AM
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I have noted the variation of thumb pieces on N and K Frame guns, but for the first time, I paid attention to the ones on some of my little guys... I have exactly six Chiefs Specials in my collection. I had them all out a few weeks ago and noticed that all of them had different thumb releases... I am sure that I am missing some of the releases but I thought it interesting that without any intent in my collecting, this is what happened:

SN 26261:



SN 46042:



SN 315974:



SN J88217:



SN 89J740:



SN BEK1510:




I'd love to see ANY other thumb releases that made their way onto your S&Ws of any variety... Or for that matter, any of your Chiefs that thumbed a ride into your collection or your holsters...
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Old 05-05-2018, 01:09 PM
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Here's a slightly different one on a M642-1........

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Old 05-05-2018, 10:27 PM
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There's 3 types of flat latches and 4 types of regular thumb pieces that I've studied for some time.

USE OF FLAT LATCHES


The 1st style flat latch began exclusively on the Baby J frame but not with #1; (earliest known is #111 presented to Col. Rex Applegate by S&W), used on most all after ~ #117 beginning in very late 1950. The only other model to have used the 1st style was the 38 M&P Airweight K frame, not on any other J frame or the I frame models. It was gone by the time any other J frame versions (BodyGuard, Centennial, and Model of 1955 22/32 Kit Gun Airweight) were introduced.

A transition to the 2nd style flat latch* began on the Baby J frame 2nd Variation (ramp sight and barrel rib) above the #25,000 range in 1953.
* Most have 11 ridges same as the 1st and 3rd styles, but a few have been observed with only 7.

The I frames used all four styles of the standard thumb piece before beginning use of the flat latch, starting with the Improved (coil mainspring) I frame - 2nd Variation (ramp sight and barrel rib) in 1953; above # 60430X on the .32 I frames, and at around # 747XX on the.38 S&W .38/32 I frames.

There are no Improved I frame .22/32s, neither 1st or 2nd Variations; so for the .22/32s, the coil spring and 2nd style flat latch began with the Model of 1953 New I frame which also began a new serial # range beginning with #100.

All other Models of 1953 New I frames and New J frames were introduced using the 2nd style flat latch.

The Kit Gun Airweight (Pre model 43) was introduced with the 2nd style in 1955 which began with #5000 in the Kit Gun serial # range.

A transition to the 3rd style flat latch began in the late 1956 period for all I and J frames until discontinued on all models in 1966.

The 38 M&P Airweight K frame Pre Model 12 and Model 12 usage also progressed thru all three styles.

THREE STYLES OF FLAT LATCHES:

New flat latch pics here post #5 and possible new style or variation of the 2nd style ID'd by two-bit cowboy:
Question on Flat Latch


2nd style has less ramp shape from the side view, larger flats at both ends and the least # of grooves.
Photo by Watchdog



Model 12-2, 1963 38 M&P Airweight K frame, 3rd style:

Photo by QTAQZ3
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:33 PM
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POST WAR THUMB PIECES, IN GENERAL

1. All pre war thumb pieces are the same styles in two sizes: I frame and K/N frame.

2. Post war I frames and the J frame thumb pieces have many variations:
A. four ‘standard’ styles used on I frames, (two on K/N), but only the 4th style was used on the J frames, and only up to ~ s/n 117 on the baby J frames.

B. 3 ‘flat latch’ styles used on J frames (and M&P K frame Airweights only), and only the 2nd and 3rd styles on I frames.



FOUR I FRAME ‘STANDARD’ STYLES OF THUMB PIECES USED POST WAR THAT PRECEDE THE FLAT LATCHES:

The four I frame thumb pieces of the .22/32, .32 and .38/32 prior to the introduction of the flat latches, have a completely different evolution than all other frame sizes. And you'll find them out of sequence with serial number advancement and/or gun delivery dates; no surprise to most of us.

These post war revolvers used four different thumb pieces prior to the flat latches starting with left over pre war thumb pieces followed by three different and new standard type thumb pieces ending with the final style, which is the same as the only style used on the first ~117 J frames (Baby Js). Used from 1946 to c. early 1953 (production dates, not shipping dates).

The 1st thumb piece used post war; left over pre war thumb pieces, carried over on the very earliest of the post war ‘Transitional’ I, (also K & N) frames; the ‘double hourglass’ or ‘double pinch' around screw hole thumbpiece with relief cuts/flare under checkered pad shown below, off and on a K22/40.
(Note: When the modern 'Classics Series' was introduced, an exact copy of this #1 pre-war style old inventory transitional post war style was introduced on them but is an MIM cast part.)


Photo by RKmesa




Flared or relieved edge:

(photo by JP@AK)



2nd style used, and first ‘new design' post war style thumb piece, still has the double 'pinch' but without relief cuts under checkered pad.




Flat edge (photo by JP@AK):



The 3rd style used (2nd new post war style) was a single hourglass or single 'pinch' in front of the screw hole like a #1 & 2 but from the center of the screw to the rear it's like a #4 below. Only seen on I frames.




4th style used (3rd new post war style) with no ‘pinches’ ended on the I frames with the introduction of the 2nd style ‘flat latch’, just prior to the Models of 1953. It was the style used on the first 117 or so .38 Chiefs Special Model of 1950 'Baby J' frames followed by the #1 style ‘flat latch’. This 4th style was used on all K and N frames immediately following the left over #1 pre war style just prior to the Models of 1950.

The 4th style was re-introduced on all I, J and K frame Airweights in 1966 and used for several years until the modern style with shaved off lower half took over ~ 1995-96.





On all early post WWII Transitional Models including I frame .22/32s, .32s and .38/32s you will find the beautifully sculptured pre-war latches, along with medium ejector rod heads (not mushroom), and even flat silver grip medallions on occasion. And you'll find them out of sequence with serial number advancement and/or gun delivery dates; no surprise to most of us.

On later post war guns, '49 and early '50s, you'll find a slightly sculpted but more blocky style, with no undercutting of the top and bottom flared edges (very few of these). And then the most common up to ‘52-‘53 is the standard blocky type used on all size frames from '66 thru the 90's.
The three styles above tend to coincide with other changes like ramped front sight with barrel rib and leaf mainspring change to coil spring that precede the change to the Improved I frame.

The flat latches began in 1950 with the #1 style on the then brand new Chief's Spl in .38 Special above ~#117. First on the 1/8" longer 'baby J' frame 5 screw, with rounder I-frame-type trigger guard and short butt, continuing on the Chief thru the change in 1953 to the 4 screw standard J frame with egg shape trigger guard, longer round butt and longer still, new style square grip frame, with three consecutive distinctive styles of flat latches 'til 1966.

Flat latches for .22/32 Kit Guns coincide with the change started with the Model of 1953, to the 4 screw New I frame (again, egg shape T. Guard, longer round grip and even longer square grip frame) .22/32 Kit Gun (4") and Target (6"). The .32 and .38 S&W guns got the flat latch around the same time but while still pre-war style I frames, with both flat mainspring, coil spring change and then the conversion to the New I frames, (progressing thru the 3 flat styles); thru the 4 screw to 3 screw change, and the model number commencement in '57. In 1961 all three were built on the 1/8" longer J frame like the Chief's Spl in .38 Special and given -1 model numbers. But the flat latches followed these four guns thru 1966 when the 'experiment' finally ended. The '50s transition models make for a boat load of collectible small frame guns!
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Last edited by Hondo44; 05-05-2018 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKmesa View Post
I have noted the variation of thumb pieces on N and K Frame guns, but for the first time, I paid attention to the ones on some of my little guys... I have exactly six Chiefs Specials in my collection. I had them all out a few weeks ago and noticed that all of them had different thumb releases... I am sure that I am missing some of the releases but I thought it interesting that without any intent in my collecting, this is what happened:

SN 26261:



SN 46042:



SN 315974:



SN J88217:



SN 89J740:



SN BEK1510:




I'd love to see ANY other thumb releases that made their way onto your S&Ws of any variety... Or for that matter, any of your Chiefs that thumbed a ride into your collection or your holsters...
1st photo is 1st style flat latch (2nd type thumb piece used on Chiefs)

2nd photo is 2nd style flat latch

3rd photo is 3rd style flat latch

4th & 5th photos is 4th style standard thumb piece (the 1st thumb piece used on Chiefs until ~ #111, and final style used on all I and J frames after 1966).

6th photo I wouldn't call a different style, just a manufacturing/finishing variation.
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:11 AM
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Jim:

Thanks for your input on these things. You are always the go-to guy with all things related to the I and J frame S&Ws.
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:20 AM
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Thumb Latches - Terrier and Baby Chief....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Terrier..jpg (144.7 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg Baby Chief.jpg (136.8 KB, 32 views)
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:59 AM
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I always enjoy your photos -- among the best on the forum.

Here's a pdf I put together last winter about Chiefs flat latches. It's out of date since I've acquired a couple new Baby Chiefs with a different style flat latch. I'll revise it one of these days and post the new study.

The photo of the two 3" Baby Chiefs show two different flat latches. The second style is the one missing from my study. The two Baby Chiefs with that slightly ramped flat latch (sns 40171 & 42829), are different than the one the study shows as a Model of 1953 version. I have Chiefs with five different flat latches, the thickest is on the nickel Model of 1953 (sn 47475), and I've not seen one like it on a blue Chiefs.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3-inch Baby Chiefs -- 1st & 2nd Flat Latches.jpg (123.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 1954 Chiefs LF.jpg (62.3 KB, 17 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf the flat latch study.pdf (471.1 KB, 28 views)
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post


...6th photo I wouldn't call a different style, just a manufacturing/finishing variation.
Jim:

Is the cylinder release on the above 60-3 hard chromed (like the trigger and hammer) or is it stainless?

Thanks,
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:21 AM
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Richard,

Cyl release button is just stainless. I've never read they are hard chromed or see a need for them to be. If looked at with 5X glass, fine machine marks can usually be seen that would generally be polished off of parts to be chromed, but no rules as always with Smiths.
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