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05-07-2018, 02:28 PM
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Can anyone ID this revolver? Updated.. picked it up/more pics
Supposedly manufactured between 1944 and 1948. Any help with ID and value in today's market would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Dave
Last edited by grimace406; 05-19-2018 at 10:33 PM.
Reason: more info added
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05-07-2018, 02:49 PM
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It is a post war, 38 Military and Police, (also known as a pre model 10)
If the stocks are original to gun it may be 1946 up to 1948 or thereabout.
After the war, the Victory frames with V prefix continued as SV prefix number then just a S prefix numbers well into S 995,000 and higher. (Jack will be along soon to specify further). Then all over again starting as C1 on up to 6 numeral places. I don't know exactly how high the C prefix number went but I think well in the C800000, or higher. Again, Jack is the man on these.
The lower number, early pre-war, depending on revisions may be in a certain transition range.
What is the serial number ? You may xx the last 2 numbers, if you'd like.
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Last edited by model3sw; 05-07-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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05-07-2018, 02:52 PM
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It appears to be a post-WWII Military and Police Model, probably in its original box. Providing the serial number (on the butt. including a letter prefix, likely SV or S) will allow fairly precise dating. I can see it selling in a gun shop or at a gun show in the approximate $800-$1000 range as it seems to fit into the ANIB category.
"It is a post war, 38 Military and Police, (also known as a pre model 10)"
It still has the long action and so would not be considered a pre-Model 10 by most.
Last edited by DWalt; 05-07-2018 at 03:35 PM.
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05-07-2018, 03:25 PM
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It is a near certainty this gun has an S prefix.
Since it has the long action, it does not have the C prefix.
Moreover, it has a threaded hammer pivot stud, so the serial number is probably lower than S820xxx. It also has the barrel shaped extractor rod knob, but that went away after the pressed hammer stud was introduced.
If the gold box is original, the gun is not an SV gun, since those all seem to have been shipped during the maroon box era. I do have my doubts about the gold box being original, however. The lowest number I have found on an M&P with a verified original gold box is in the S834xxx range, and by that time the hammer studs were pressed in place.
The serial number would help a lot, but looking at the features, I'd say shipment was sometime between March and August, 1946.
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05-07-2018, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw
.....Then all over again starting as C1 on up to 6 numeral places. I don't know exactly how high the C prefix number went but I think well in the C800000, or higher.
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The C-prefix went to C999999, just like the other prefix lines
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05-07-2018, 03:33 PM
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To get top dollar, the SN on the box would match that of the gun. There are gold boxes floating around, I have sold a few of them myself.
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05-07-2018, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
The C-prefix went to C999999
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As did the S prefix.
Revolver number S999999 shipped to Minneapolis in June, 1948, in a shipment of 100 units. Half had 5" barrels, the other half had 6" barrels.
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05-07-2018, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
It is a near certainty this gun has an S prefix.
Since it has the long action, it does not have the C prefix.
Moreover, it has a threaded hammer pivot stud, so the serial number is probably lower than S820xxx. It also has the barrel shaped extractor rod knob, but that went away after the pressed hammer stud was introduced.
If the gold box is original, the gun is not an SV gun, since those all seem to have been shipped during the maroon box era. I do have my doubts about the gold box being original, however. The lowest number I have found on an M&P with a verified original gold box is in the S834xxx range, and by that time the hammer studs were pressed in place.
The serial number would help a lot, but looking at the features, I'd say shipment was sometime between March and August, 1946.
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See, I stated Jack was "the Man" on these.
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05-07-2018, 04:24 PM
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Look for the serial on the bottom of the box in white or black grease pencil.
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05-07-2018, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
As did the S prefix.
Revolver number S999999 shipped to Minneapolis in June, 1948, in a shipment of 100 units. Half had 5" barrels, the other half had 6" barrels.
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Jack, What SN did the pre-war M&Ps (no prefix letter) go up to before the V prefix Victory series production commenced ? Thank you. Sal
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Last edited by model3sw; 05-07-2018 at 04:40 PM.
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05-07-2018, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
It is a near certainty this gun has an S prefix.
Since it has the long action, it does not have the C prefix.
Moreover, it has a threaded hammer pivot stud, so the serial number is probably lower than S820xxx. It also has the barrel shaped extractor rod knob, but that went away after the pressed hammer stud was introduced.
If the gold box is original, the gun is not an SV gun, since those all seem to have been shipped during the maroon box era. I do have my doubts about the gold box being original, however. The lowest number I have found on an M&P with a verified original gold box is in the S834xxx range, and by that time the hammer studs were pressed in place.
The serial number would help a lot, but looking at the features, I'd say shipment was sometime between March and August, 1946.
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The serial number is S847041. I haven't seen it in person yet but the serial is hand-written on the box.
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05-07-2018, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace406
The serial number is S847041. I haven't seen it in person yet but the serial is hand-written on the box.
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Okay. Well, let's see if that number is also on the butt and the other five locations. Interesting, if so.
Edit: After posting, I got to thinking that maybe what you were telling me is that the number on the gun has been confirmed as S847041, and it is also written on the box. Is that correct? If so, I apologize for the statement above.
If both the gun and the box carry this number, it will be an interesting one to track down. It is a late serial number with the threaded stud and/or an early shipper with the gold box. Or, of course there is the possibility that the number was written on the box later.
I'll await your pictures and confirmation of the serial number with bated breath!
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Last edited by JP@AK; 05-07-2018 at 07:20 PM.
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05-07-2018, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw
Jack, What SN did the pre-war M&Ps (no prefix letter) go up to before the V prefix Victory series production commenced?
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Sal
Production revolvers went all the way to 999999 in April, 1942. According to my notes, there was a revolver that was given the number 1,000,000. It was held back by the company, allegedly for placement in the museum. I have not verified that with Roy, but I think he might have been my original source for the information. I should ask him if the whereabouts of that gun is known.
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05-07-2018, 07:40 PM
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If the SN turns out to be S847041 it probably would have shipped toward the end of 1946, October or November. If the box is similarly numbered it is probably original, although I do not know exactly when use of the gold box began, except shortly after WWII. It hasn't been mentioned yet here, but the "S" prefix means it has the improved hammer drop safety that started with very early 1945 production. The S series began at around S811xxx. Allegedly the first M&P with the pressed hammer stud was S819462, but it may not be entirely correct to assume all M&Ps after that SN had threaded studs. Some beyond that SN may have the threaded hammer stud, and yours could be one of them. Exceptions to the rules are not that rare.
Last edited by DWalt; 05-07-2018 at 08:17 PM.
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05-08-2018, 10:05 AM
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additional pics.....
Here's some additional pictures of the box and serial.
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05-08-2018, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace406
Here's some additional pictures of the box and serial.
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Very interesting. The number on the box appears to be the typical factory scrawl. It clearly matches the gun's serial number. I will flag this one to get a ship date from Roy as part of our research.
Could you post one more picture of the left side of the gun, giving me a close up shot of the area around the thumb piece (cylinder release)? I want to make sure I'm seeing what I think I see in your other, less clear, photo.
Thanks!
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05-08-2018, 11:46 AM
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By the way, grimace406, that is an extremely nice looking example. The box is in amazing condition as well. I own nearly two dozen of these early postwar M&Ps and very few of them are in as good shape as this one.
Nearly all of the serial numbers near yours are recorded as leaving the factory in October, 1946. There are two nearby fliers, one that shipped in November and one in December. I think the odds are high yours shipped in October. (Only a letter can give you certainty, of course.)
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05-08-2018, 11:52 AM
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Looking at my database again, I notice that your serial number is right in the middle of a large order that shipped to the NYPD on October 11, 1946. Serial numbers in that shipment ran from S844xxx to S848xxx. This does not mean your gun went to the New York department, but it increases the odds.
As nice as that revolver is, I would get a letter on it if it were in my collection. The date and location of shipment would be of interest.
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05-19-2018, 10:32 PM
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New pics added
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
Very interesting. The number on the box appears to be the typical factory scrawl. It clearly matches the gun's serial number. I will flag this one to get a ship date from Roy as part of our research.
Could you post one more picture of the left side of the gun, giving me a close up shot of the area around the thumb piece (cylinder release)? I want to make sure I'm seeing what I think I see in your other, less clear, photo.
Thanks!
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I just picked up the revolver. Here's some additional pics.
Got it for $550.00, how'd I do?
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05-19-2018, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP@AK
Looking at my database again, I notice that your serial number is right in the middle of a large order that shipped to the NYPD on October 11, 1946. Serial numbers in that shipment ran from S844xxx to S848xxx. This does not mean your gun went to the New York department, but it increases the odds.
.....
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For that condition, with the box and accessories, I'd pay that anytime.
I would definitely get a letter on it. If it went to NYPD, given its condition, it wasn't sold to a probationary patrolman, or it was, to someone who discovered a few days into the academy that policing wasn't for him
Last edited by Absalom; 05-19-2018 at 10:54 PM.
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05-19-2018, 11:04 PM
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Very nice revolver at a great price. I've got .38 M&P S813xxx; it shipped in March, 1946 in a maroon box. Does anyone know when the first S prefix gun shipped?
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05-19-2018, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace406
I just picked up the revolver. Here's some additional pics.
Got it for $550.00, how'd I do?
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You'd have a long line of folks here happy to give you your money back if you decide you don't like it.
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05-19-2018, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimace406
I just picked up the revolver. Here's some additional pics.
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Excellent. Thanks for the pics. It solves one mystery. I was sure I was seeing a threaded stud in your earlier pictures. This array shows that I was mistaken. It has the pressed stud, as it should at that serial number. I'll go back and correct my database now.
Quote:
Got it for $550.00, how'd I do?
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With the gun in that condition and the fine gold box, HH and cleaning rod? You have to be kidding! That is a steal.
A few years back, I bought one in 98% condition with a 6" barrel about a year newer than yours. It had a gold box, not in as good condition as yours, and the HH, but no rod. I paid $650 for it. It did have the original bill of sale, dated about a month after the gun left the factory, which was nice.
Congratulations!
I fully agree with Absalom. Get a letter on this one. If you do, please let me know if it went to the NYPD. I also track that info.
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05-19-2018, 11:44 PM
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Might be time to buy a lottery ticket! Be proud of that one.
Mike
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05-20-2018, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSmith
I've got .38 M&P S813xxx; it shipped in March, 1946 in a maroon box.
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Hi
I do not believe I have this one in my database. Would you please supply the full serial number and the barrel length, so I can add yours to my research? PM the serial if you would rather not disclose it publicly. I don't track ownership.
Also, if you have a letter and can tell me the exact ship date and the destination, that would also help me.
Quote:
Does anyone know when the first S prefix gun shipped?
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The earliest shipment I have identified to a civilian location after the war was a group in the S815xxx range that went to the Cleveland Police Department in February, 1946. I don't know yet how many were in that shipment, but it appears to be quite large.
Aside from the Cleveland shipment, the earliest shipment I've found was on March 1, 1946. On the 3d of March, 800 units went to a distributor in NY. I show other shipments on March 8 and 12, and shipments to the NYPD on March 15 and 20.
In other words, one heck of a lot of .38 M&P revolvers went out the door in March, 1946. It was a major release to meet pent-up demand. I personally own five of them that shipped in March, 1946.
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05-21-2018, 12:34 AM
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You just might get busted for larceny on that deal What a gem!
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