I messed up today. I won something at an auction for a price below my budget, and then had a negligent discharge on the button and ended up with the high bid on another lot.

I'll have to letter both of them to find out A) if I was right about the first one, and B) how bad I messed up on the second.

The one I wanted is a 4" 1950 target. Roy will have to tell me if it's been cut or not.

The oops is a 5-screw Pre-27.

At least when I mess up I do it in style.

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The front sight pins look legit, as well as the roll mark location. I don't think it's been cut but it could have been swapped.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Well, if it averages out, you're good. Two very nice pistols . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

That's how I called it also. The serial number is S118227, which is in a series that I've seen pop up frequently in threads about 4" 1950's.

The barrel looks righteous to me.

As for being changed, the two key questions are:

Is it serial numbered to match the gun and is there a factory rework date under the left grip on the grip frame?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I haven't had a chance to check all the serial locations...have to wait for them to get here. It's going to be a long couple of weeks.

Anybody else old enough to remember the ketchup commercial about anticipation?

Both guns look really nice! Congratulations!

And to see TWO very nice sets of unrelieved checkered diamond target stocks on these guns is just oh so cool!

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FBINA, 204th Session

The serial number is in the area of several 4" 1950's as was said earlier. Also if you look at the front end of the cutout for the ejector rod, it is very squared off. Most 4" barrels are like that. There is a theory that they were made from an early batch of 6 and 1/2" barrels that had the cut out for the LERK.

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S&WCA 1729

You guys worry to much. They are beauties.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

They look good to me, but the letter will tell the tale. My observance has been that most of the 4" guns had the small trademark, but not always. Good luck, give us an update AND a range report

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PTLAPTA!

The 5 inch .357 Magnum most commonly shipped with the plain black front sight. The red ramp might be indicative of a special order.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I'm curious....based on the pictures alone (and I've posted everything I had to go on), how would the group grade these two on a percentage scale? I think I'm probably too hard on my grading because I consistently see Smith's selling for dollar amounts that equal a full grade, sometimes two grades, higher than I would rate them.

I'm using a 38th edition (2017) Blue Book as my guide.

Nice guns !! From what I can see they both look righteous to me... Maybe one of the more experienced collectors will be along shortly

Nice guns!!! To me, the Blue Book is only a guide, not the definitive answer. Values vary based on a lot of forces, and I've seen the Blue Book be ridiculously high in some instances, and ridiculously low in others.
Mike

WOW !! You really did mess up I'd like to mess up like that

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John

Mine has a red ramp sight as well


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think those guns were at a local auction near me. I had my eye on that 4” gun. What scared me off was the description it stated 80%. The photo’s didn’t look 80% to me in the pictures. None the less good luck on it. I ask what you paid but that might not be in good taste.

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Bob
Sic Semper Tyrannis

Hi Bob

Yes, they were close to you in Maine. They'll be traveling to Arizona thanks to the wonders of the interwebs.

The 4" gun was more than the usual grail gun for me. When I was growing up my Dad only had one handgun. As a teenager in the 70's and 80's the only "resource" I had for identifying guns was the manufacturer listings in the back of the Guns & Ammo annual edition. It was quite frustrating that I could never identify exactly what my old man had. The only markings that I could find on it were the S&W logo, the name Smith & Wesson on the barrel, and the caliber: .44 S&W Special Ctg. It had a 4" barrel and hand-modified Colt (with the rampant pony logo) smooth target grips. I never thought to take the grips off to check for a serial number on the butt.

The old man only had 5 shells for it. They were round nose lead bullets made by Remington that were old enough to have verdigris starting around the rim. When I was 13 I bought him a speedloader for Christmas because everyone should have one. I was very disappointed when I discovered that it wouldn't clear the Colt grips.

Dad gave me the gun when I moved out to go to college at the University of Arizona because Tucson was a big, dangerous city and he thought I should have something with me. I bought one box of shells and shot all of them out in the desert east of Tucson, then put the original 5 shells back into the gun.

One day I was out running around with my room mate in his car and had the old .44 with me in a backpack. When we got back to the apartment I forgot the backpack and left it in the car. As we were getting ready for bed I remembered that I had left it and started to go downstairs to retrieve the backpack. My buddy convinced me that it would be ok and not to worry about it.

The next morning we found the window broken out of his car and the backpack gone. I spent weeks checking pawnshops but never found it. The police report didn't include the serial number because I still hadn't realized that it was under the grips.

I didn't figure out what it was that I had so stupidly lost until many years later.

Over the years I found other things that were close but not quite the same...a 4" 624, a 6 1/2" 1950 Target, and recently a 3rd model HE with a 4" barrel.

I looked on and off for 30+ years without finding a 4" 1950 Target, and then in the last 30 days or so I've found three of them. One sold at Rock Island for $6,500, another is listed in the classifieds here, and the one that I ended up buying. The first two are beautiful collector grade guns. Mine looks to be shooter grade, which is perfect for me. The old man's gun had spent decades in fishing camps and riding around on the front seat of his truck in an old brown holster. Replacing it with a safe queen just wouldn't be quite right. (Edit: There were four...I forgot about the one that sold on GB a few days ago)

The non-relieved target grips that are on it now will stay with it, but I'll probably pick up a set of Colt smooth presentation targets that I can fit with a pocket knife just to make it "right" in my mind.

As you may have guessed by now I went into the auction with a pretty high budget. I'm glad that you didn't go after it very hard. The hammer price was $2,300 plus the buyers premium which will bring it to around $2,700 before shipping, insurance, and transfer fees. I may have paid too much or I may have gotten a bargain. On that one it doesn't really matter much. The book value question above was really about the pre-27.


BTW, thank you for your service. Two of my daughters served in the Navy.

Great story, it must have been heartbreaking to lose that family heirloom to a theif. I guess it was ment to be. I be watching here for. The rest of the story when you receive the gun. Hope it works out for you as these guns are like hens teeth. I have an idea who owned the gun before, not absolutely sure. Anyway it was good to connect with you on the greatest forum on the net.

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Bob
Sic Semper Tyrannis

What a sad story. I had it happen to me too. Came out of a hotel to find my truck window broken and my $600 Filson satchel/briefcase gone and it contained a mint model 60 with a Galco holster. All just because I neglected to bring it in with me. I did all the rounds but never found either. It makes you sick and mad as hell at the same time. I found myself praying to find the perpetrator but that was probably just as bad as the thieving deed.

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Jeb

I 'did really well and found a gun for which I had been searching for several decades' today. I won something at an auction for a price below my budget, and then had a negligent discharge on the button and ended up with the high bid on another lot.

There, fixed it for you.

I agree you did well on the 4" 1950 .44 and that it will likely letter as original. The (6"? 6.5"?) .357 Magnum with the original box is probably in the $1500-2000 range to me, but the real collectors of this model may differ. Looking forward to more photos.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Good Morning, I'd bet the 4" is legit, I own a righteous one 6 digits from yours at S118233.

The only thing that was probably done is the ramp insert was either, a) cut and added later, or b) it was originally a red ramp gun, the ramp was lost and was replaced (with what appears to be gold perhaps?) later and done right.

The pre27 is in a neat configuration, the only thing I worry about is the cylinder. It looks like it may have went plum (which you don't see much on the 357s as much as .44 magnums. I'm wondering if the cylinder been refinished for some reason?

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

I was also following this 4". I'm glad I didn't bid on it as your max was most likely higher than mine. Congratulations on winning this, sounds like it went to the right person. I hope the condition is higher than what the auction stated. Looking forward to seeing more pics.

LOL @Murphydog. I like your version better.

Since the two guns have the same sights, same grips, are close in serial numbers, and were only one lot apart in the auction order, it's very possible that they came from the same person. Bob...if you can provide some generic details without naming names it would be neat to know more about the previous owner.

I kinda figured that a good chunk of this forum was watching and/or bidding. There were some neat ones later on. Did anyone here pick up the pair of nickled K frames?

Waiting for them to get here is harder than waiting to find one for sale.

Re: the pre-27 cylinder. The auction description stated that it was starting to go plum. I have a couple of old Leupold scopes that have gone completely plum and I like the look. I know it takes away from the collector/investment value, but to me it adds character.

More and better pics will be posted when they get here.

On the way home.....more and better pics to follow later.

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I just looked at your pictures and I am not sure what you are worried about. Those are two FINE looking S&W revolvers and I (along with a few others here I gather) would be proud to call them my own.

Cherish them, enjoy them, and don't once look back and think you bought in error.