I found something interesting today.

Pre-34, four screw, 2 1/2" barrel, RB, flat latch, 272XX serial number. Not sure if it's an I frame or not. Looks near new. Now I know they cut the four screw to three around serial number 11K on the 34's. Anyway, trying to pin this one down as it shouldn't even exist with the four screw configuration and 5 digit serial.

Does have incorrect later pattern grips though. If someone has some J diamonds that look nice I'll buy them.

Found this article;

Smith & Wesson Kit Gun | Gun Values Board

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

C77

Centurian77

As the author of the piece you linked to, I would point out the following paragraph to your attention:

On December 13, 1955, management directed that the top sideplate screw was to be eliminated, making the .22/32 revolvers three screw guns. This change was initiated on the Kit Gun at approximate serial number 11,000. However, as with all S&W revolvers, these changes were phased in. Some frames forged before the change is implemented by the floor supervisor may already be drilled for the fourth screw, and some four screw sideplates may still be in inventory. All parts are used up, since company policy dictates against waste. Readers should keep in mind that roll stamping the serial number is one of the very last actions taken in the manufacturing process. Therefore, some four screw guns ended up having higher serial numbers than the first batch of three screw frames. In the entire history of S&W’s manufacture of handguns, there are no absolute serial number cutoffs on any engineering development. In some cases, we know the serial number of the first gun produced with a particular change, but that does not mean there will be no guns with higher numbers that have the earlier configuration. They show up all the time.

You seem to have found one of those anomalies.

Really? It should be just 2". I just took two of them out of the safe and measured the barrels - exactly 2". The Model 19 snub has a 2 1/2" barrel, but not the Kit Guns.

It is an I frame. Conversion to the J frame didn't happen until the Model 34-1 came out in 1960.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Just measured, has the 2" barrel. So I guess they made the pre 34 four screws for a while then, well past 11K serial number. I read that part but thought maybe it was just something with a few left overs after that serial number. Now just need some early J frame diamonds or I frame diamonds.

I think you are misreading it still. There probably were not many. Yours is an anomaly. A four screw drilled frame and sideplate probably just showed up, after the change to the three screw pattern was implemented. I'd guess your gun was serialized in 1957, maybe 1956. I know that Kit Gun serial number 322xx shipped in January, 1958, and 316xx shipped in June, 1958. Those are both three screw examples.

I hope Jim (Hondo44) shows up to comment on this.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Here is a set of diamond J-frame grips - though if it is an I-frame they won't fit, will they?

Lots of S&W grips for sale (item #21)

It is a Model of 1953 I frame, so yes, the J frame stocks will fit, assuming the correct grip frame shape (round or square).

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

They started stamping them "34" in late 1957 correct? Mine isn't stamped anything other than an assembly number on the yoke area. Has the serial number on the heel, cylinder, and under the barrel- all matched. An anomaly.

Model numbers were assigned in 1957. Given the number of Kit Guns that shipped in 1958 without model numbers marked on them, there is a good chance the Kit Guns were not marked until sometime in 1958. It was all about production rates and sales. If there was an inventory of a particular model already in the vault, the next production run for that model might have been later than other models that were already getting marked in the yoke area. Examples in the vault would be pulled and shipped as orders came in. When inventory was getting low a new production run would be scheduled. No telling when Model 34 revolvers were built and marked with the model number. The two I mentioned in Post #4 are not model marked either, and they have serial numbers higher than yours.

BTW, you mentioned the flat latch in your first post. Those stayed in use until c. 1966, well into the -1 era. No big deal.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

C77,

Great find! You jave a ".22/32 Kit Gun Model of 1953 NEW I frame", the next change after the 22/32 Post War Transitional I frame introduction of ~1950 (SCSW 4th Ed., page 144.)

Yours is indeed a new high water mark for a 4 screw, here-to-fore the highest known with 4 screws, #25597 shipped Nov 1956.

#351XX is the lowest serial # stamped Mod 34, ship date unknown.
#35228 is the earliest # Mod 34 stamped, with known ship date Sept. 30, 1958.

I and J frame grips are always the same size for the same vintage.

Pre 1953 they are both the pre war I frame size back to the very 1st model, the Mod of 1896.

After 1953, I & J grips are again still the same size; both 1/8" longer than pre 1953 grips.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

So I have quite possibly the last 1953 22/32 four screw kit gun ever made?

Now I just need J frame diamond magnas that are in excellent condition. This revolver is like new as in- I don't think it was ever fired. I'll get pics up once I get the grips if I can ever find any. Seen quite a few diamond magnas but most are rough looking. This one deserves a nice set given it's now historical prominence.

Do you mind sharing the serial # here or in a private message for the database?

Model 1953 NEW I and NEW J frame grips are the same size; 1/8" longer round butt grips than the pre 1953 I and J frame grips. The sq butt grips are also the same size.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

So the original owner put some aftermarket oversized target wood grips on it- which didn't look that good. The shop put on some original standard magnas because they couldn't find any older diamond magnas. So now I just need the right set. Serial is 27241. Condition overall about 99%. If someone has an e-mail address I can send some pics, for some reason the website is saying I can't host pictures.

It's a Model of 1953 New I frame (Pre model 34).

That is the highest # in my database that's a four screw, before that is 25597, shipped 11/56.

The latest Pre mod 34 is 35796 shipped 1/59.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

nobody else has asked, but you are taking the serial number from the bottom of the grip frame, yes? With 242 posts, I'm guessing you know this.

Charlie

Yes I took the serial number from the correct spot on the bottom of the grip frame. Quick update, I was able to locate a set of j-diamond magnas which has been added to the revolver to make it correct. So, this quite possibly is the last pre-34 kit gun ever made. I can send photos if someone wants any. It's a nice little revolver. Also, noticed something, all the pre-34's with the upper screw that I've seen have two pins running through the frame just above that upper screw. This one only has one pin running through the frame.

.22/32 Kit Gun and Target Firing pin changes

I could not find this info anywhere so have studied the .22/32 models. The one pin or two pins coincide with two styles of firing pins, round and rectangular respectively at the breech face. With the rectangular style there can be two proud pins, or front pin proud and rear pin flush from the factory.

ROUND FIRING PIN with one retaining pin:
The front single pin retains the firing pin bushing in the recoil shield and the firing pin is a round style including a fully round front striking tip. Used on the Pre war 22/32 Heavy Frame Target, ('30s vintage 22/32 Heavy Target ), 22/32 Kit Guns, and post war transitional Target and Kit Guns. This configuration returned later c. #70000, Oct. 1960 with the J frame introduction; Models 34-1 and 35-1.

RECTANGULAR FRONT TIP, FLATTENED TOP REAR FIRING PIN with two retaining pins:
The Model of 1953 New I frame is the first post war model change for the 22/32 models and introduced a new rectangular shaped firing pin tip with two proud retaining pins at first, front for bushing and rear for firing pin.

This rectangular front striking tip style firing pin can be seen with hammer cocked by looking in the hammer channel from the rear at the top of the firing pin. This rear 2nd pin crosses over the flattened rear top of, and retains the firing pin.

The rectangular firing pin with proud front pin and flush rear pin was used beginning c. #21000 (1956) thru c. # 29000, at which time the two proud pins returned. I have observed that the 'bright' blue finish began on the .22/32 in its serial # range in the early to mid 21,000s (1956) and seems to coincide with the flat polishing of the rear retaining pin.

RETURN OF THE ROUND FIRING PIN:
The Pre-1953 round tipped firing pin w/one front retaining pin, was reintroduced c. #70000 Oct. 1960 with the 22/32 J frame introduction of the Models 34-1 and 35-1.
7/22/17 -
In stock at Brownells here: Firing Pin : SMITH & WESSON FIRING PIN | Brownells


2 pin with rear pin flush c. #21000 (late '55 to early '56) to c. #29000 (’57 – ’58).

2" #26821 shipped 7/57:
BAD LINK


RETURN OF THE ROUND FIRING PIN with one pin:
The rectangular/rear flattened top firing pin was subsequently dropped in an engineering change that re-used the fully round firing pin of the pre war guns and the post war transitional guns with one pin (proud) on the sides of the frame. I have not been able to pinpoint when the change was made and of course like every other S&W change it was a transitional event. However, I have a sense that the return to one single pin (proud) with fully round firing pin coincides approximately with the change from the I frame Mod 34 to the J frame Mod 34 identified with a "-1" in Oct 1960, c. #70000. I have not observed any J frame 22/32 kit guns with two pins, proud or otherwise.

BEWARE OF REFINISHED GUNS one proud & one flush pin or both flush:
Refinished Mod 1953 22/32s originally having two proud pins will often be encountered with the forward pin proud and the smaller rear pin or both pins polished flush. However, the 2nd pin flush can be an original factory variation and will be observed on a non-refinished gun as stated above.

NOT DOCUMENTED ANYWHERE:
This round/rectangular firing pin and 1 pin/2 pin issue will not be found anywhere in the Jink's or SCSW books.

I hope this helps and as usual I am always open to further evidence in the unending pursuit of complete knowledge of S&W firearms.

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Jim
S&WCA #819