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Old 05-15-2018, 04:32 PM
Centurian77 Centurian77 is offline
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Default Haaalp! Haaalp! Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????

I found something interesting today.

Pre-34, four screw, 2 1/2" barrel, RB, flat latch, 272XX serial number. Not sure if it's an I frame or not. Looks near new. Now I know they cut the four screw to three around serial number 11K on the 34's. Anyway, trying to pin this one down as it shouldn't even exist with the four screw configuration and 5 digit serial.

Does have incorrect later pattern grips though. If someone has some J diamonds that look nice I'll buy them.

Found this article;

Smith & Wesson Kit Gun | Gun Values Board

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

C77
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:57 PM
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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Centurian77

As the author of the piece you linked to, I would point out the following paragraph to your attention:

On December 13, 1955, management directed that the top sideplate screw was to be eliminated, making the .22/32 revolvers three screw guns. This change was initiated on the Kit Gun at approximate serial number 11,000. However, as with all S&W revolvers, these changes were phased in. Some frames forged before the change is implemented by the floor supervisor may already be drilled for the fourth screw, and some four screw sideplates may still be in inventory. All parts are used up, since company policy dictates against waste. Readers should keep in mind that roll stamping the serial number is one of the very last actions taken in the manufacturing process. Therefore, some four screw guns ended up having higher serial numbers than the first batch of three screw frames. In the entire history of S&Ws manufacture of handguns, there are no absolute serial number cutoffs on any engineering development. In some cases, we know the serial number of the first gun produced with a particular change, but that does not mean there will be no guns with higher numbers that have the earlier configuration. They show up all the time.

You seem to have found one of those anomalies.

Quote:
Pre-34, four screw, 2 1/2" barrel
Really? It should be just 2". I just took two of them out of the safe and measured the barrels - exactly 2". The Model 19 snub has a 2 1/2" barrel, but not the Kit Guns.

Quote:
Not sure if it's an I frame or not.
It is an I frame. Conversion to the J frame didn't happen until the Model 34-1 came out in 1960.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:02 PM
Centurian77 Centurian77 is offline
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Just measured, has the 2" barrel. So I guess they made the pre 34 four screws for a while then, well past 11K serial number. I read that part but thought maybe it was just something with a few left overs after that serial number. Now just need some early J frame diamonds or I frame diamonds.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:08 PM
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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I think you are misreading it still. There probably were not many. Yours is an anomaly. A four screw drilled frame and sideplate probably just showed up, after the change to the three screw pattern was implemented. I'd guess your gun was serialized in 1957, maybe 1956. I know that Kit Gun serial number 322xx shipped in January, 1958, and 316xx shipped in June, 1958. Those are both three screw examples.

I hope Jim (Hondo44) shows up to comment on this.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:14 PM
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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Here is a set of diamond J-frame grips - though if it is an I-frame they won't fit, will they?

Lots of S&W grips for sale (item #21)
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:59 PM
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
though if it is an I-frame they won't fit, will they?
It is a Model of 1953 I frame, so yes, the J frame stocks will fit, assuming the correct grip frame shape (round or square).
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:18 PM
Centurian77 Centurian77 is offline
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They started stamping them "34" in late 1957 correct? Mine isn't stamped anything other than an assembly number on the yoke area. Has the serial number on the heel, cylinder, and under the barrel- all matched. An anomaly.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:10 AM
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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Model numbers were assigned in 1957. Given the number of Kit Guns that shipped in 1958 without model numbers marked on them, there is a good chance the Kit Guns were not marked until sometime in 1958. It was all about production rates and sales. If there was an inventory of a particular model already in the vault, the next production run for that model might have been later than other models that were already getting marked in the yoke area. Examples in the vault would be pulled and shipped as orders came in. When inventory was getting low a new production run would be scheduled. No telling when Model 34 revolvers were built and marked with the model number. The two I mentioned in Post #4 are not model marked either, and they have serial numbers higher than yours.

BTW, you mentioned the flat latch in your first post. Those stayed in use until c. 1966, well into the -1 era. No big deal.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:50 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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C77,

Great find! You jave a ".22/32 Kit Gun Model of 1953 NEW I frame", the next change after the Improved I frame of 1952 (SCSW 4th Ed., page 144.)

Yours is indeed a new high water mark for a 4 screw, here-to-fore the highest known with 4 screws, #25597 shipped Nov 1956.

#351XX is the lowest serial # stamped Mod 34, ship date unknown.
#35228 is the earliest # Mod 34 stamped, with known ship date Sept. 30, 1958.

I and J frame grips are always the same size for the same vintage.

Pre 1953 they are both the pre war I frame size back to the very 1st model, the Mod of 1896.

After 1953, I & J grips are again still the same size; both 1/8" longer than pre 1953 grips.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:01 PM
Centurian77 Centurian77 is offline
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So I have quite possibly the last 1953 22/32 four screw kit gun ever made?

Now I just need J frame diamond magnas that are in excellent condition. This revolver is like new as in- I don't think it was ever fired. I'll get pics up once I get the grips if I can ever find any. Seen quite a few diamond magnas but most are rough looking. This one deserves a nice set given it's now historical prominence.

Last edited by Centurian77; 05-17-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:41 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurian77 View Post
So I have quite possibly the last 1953 22/32 four screw kit gun ever made?

Now I just need J frame diamond magnas that are in excellent condition. This revolver is like new as in- I don't think it was ever fired. I'll get pics up once I get the grips if I can ever find any. Seen quite a few diamond magnas but most are rough looking. This one deserves a nice set given it's now historical prominence.
Do you mind sharing the serial # here or in a private message for the database?

Model 1953 NEW I and NEW J frame grips are the same size; 1/8" longer round butt grips than the pre 1953 I and J frame grips. The sq butt grips are also the same size.
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Old 05-20-2018, 04:33 PM
Centurian77 Centurian77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Do you mind sharing the serial # here or in a private message for the database?

Model 1953 NEW I and NEW J frame grips are the same size; 1/8" longer round butt grips than the pre 1953 I and J frame grips. The sq butt grips are also the same size.

So the original owner put some aftermarket oversized target wood grips on it- which didn't look that good. The shop put on some original standard magnas because they couldn't find any older diamond magnas. So now I just need the right set. Serial is 27241. Condition overall about 99%. If someone has an e-mail address I can send some pics, for some reason the website is saying I can't host pictures.

Last edited by Centurian77; 05-20-2018 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 05:40 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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It's a Model of 1953 New I frame (Pre model 34).

That is the highest # in my database that's a four screw, before that is 25597, shipped 11/56.

The latest Pre mod 34 is 35796 shipped 1/59.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:58 PM
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Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number???? Haaalp! Haaalp!  Pre 34, 4 screw, flat latch 5 digit serial number????  
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nobody else has asked, but you are taking the serial number from the bottom of the grip frame, yes? With 242 posts, I'm guessing you know this.

Charlie
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