What do I have, Year of Manufactoring?

sgtphil1111 · #1 05-24-2018, 12:20 PM

Hand Ejector
Serial #303XX
.32 Winchester CTG
5' Barrel
Fixed Sights

New acquired revolver looking for whatever info I can learn about it. Thanks

JP@AK · #2 05-24-2018, 12:28 PM

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

You have a .32-20 Hand Ejector, Model of 1902. The closest serial number I have recorded is 28857, a 6 1/2" nickel example. It shipped in September, 1908. That gives you a rough time frame for yours.

The stocks on your gun are much, much newer than the revolver. They date from 1967 or later.

DWalt · #3 05-24-2018, 12:36 PM

And I list 400xx and 420xx as also shipping in 1908. So yours probably did too. Most 1902s originally came from the factory with black hard rubber grips. Replicas of original grips are available. You will find that .32-20 ammunition may be difficult to find and expensive. That is one reason .32-20 revolvers are not too popular despite their relative scarcity. Ammunition is still made and there are internet sources for it.

Wiregrassguy · #4 05-24-2018, 01:09 PM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! The hammer and trigger are plated and S&W did not do that. So, the gun has been refinished at some point in its life. Look under the barrel for a 'B' in front of the serial number on the ejector rod flat or push out the extractor star and look on the cylinder for a 'B'. If there, it was originally blued from the factory.

Although you've been given the Model 1902 as the model number because it is a round butt, the gun has the Model 1905 rebound slide action. So, it really isn't a Model 1902 except in butt shape. It is probably more appropriate to call it the .32 M&P since that is what S&W called it later. Since most collectors focus in on the engineering features, the engineering changes for the 1902 ended at Change 1 and there is no agreement on making the action changes the Model 1902, 2nd Change..3rd Change, etc. To be consistent with that method of identification, it would have to be called the .32-20 Model of 1905, 1st Change, round butt.

32-20 is also known as .32 Winchester and .32 WCF (Winchester Center Fire). All of these cartridge names were stamped on the .32 M&P revolver at various stages of its life. The .32-20 M&P was manufactured up until about 1930 but didn't sell well. S&W sold them out of inventory until about 1940.

JP@AK · #5 05-24-2018, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Although you've been given the Model 1902 as the model number because it is a round butt, the gun has the Model 1905 rebound slide action. So, it really isn't a Model 1902 except in butt shape. It is probably more appropriate to call it the .32 M&P since that is what S&W called it later. Since most collectors focus in on the engineering features, the engineering changes for the 1902 ended at Change 1 and there is no agreement on making the action changes the Model 1902, 2nd Change..3rd Change, etc. To be consistent with that method of identification, it would have to be called the .32-20 Model of 1905, 1st Change, round butt.

O boy! Guy wants to reopen that old debate. No thank you!

pharmer · #6 05-24-2018, 03:36 PM

Nice gun for 100+ years out of the factory. If'n you are in the Orlando Florida area I have a factory fresh box of 50 .32-20 Winchester you can have as a "welcome to the forum" to get you started. I have never owned a .32-20 but somehow have a box of ammo in the stash. Joe

DWalt · #7 05-24-2018, 04:06 PM

"To be consistent with that method of identification, it would have to be called the .32-20 Model of 1905, 1st Change, round butt."

Which is inconsistent with S&W's nomenclature practice at that time. They called it a 1902.

sgtphil1111 · #8 05-24-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! The hammer and trigger are plated and S&W did not do that. So, the gun has been refinished at some point in its life. Look under the barrel for a 'B' in front of the serial number on the ejector rod flat or push out the extractor star and look on the cylinder for a 'B'. If there, it was originally blued from the factory.

Although you've been given the Model 1902 as the model number because it is a round butt, the gun has the Model 1905 rebound slide action. So, it really isn't a Model 1902 except in butt shape. It is probably more appropriate to call it the .32 M&P since that is what S&W called it later. Since most collectors focus in on the engineering features, the engineering changes for the 1902 ended at Change 1 and there is no agreement on making the action changes the Model 1902, 2nd Change..3rd Change, etc. To be consistent with that method of identification, it would have to be called the .32-20 Model of 1905, 1st Change, round butt.

32-20 is also known as .32 Winchester and .32 WCF (Winchester Center Fire). All of these cartridge names were stamped on the .32 M&P revolver at various stages of its life. The .32-20 M&P was manufactured up until about 1930 but didn't sell well. S&W sold them out of inventory until about 1940.

There is a B in the bottom side of the barrel next to the serial number. Is that a common practice of nickel plating a factory blued gun?

sgtphil1111 · #9 05-24-2018, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharmer

Nice gun for 100+ years out of the factory. If'n you are in the Orlando Florida area I have a factory fresh box of 50 .32-20 Winchester you can have as a "welcome to the forum" to get you started. I have never owned a .32-20 but somehow have a box of ammo in the stash. Joe

Thanks for the offer. Wish I was closer I always like shooting every gun I own. But being in Kansas would make it difficult to pick them up. Thanks though that might friendly of you.

JP@AK · #10 05-24-2018, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtphil1111

There is a B in the bottom side of the barrel next to the serial number. Is that a common practice of nickel plating a factory blued gun?

It means the gun was blue when it left the factory. It confirms our suspicion that the nickel plating it wears now was added afterward. The B was put there by the fitter to indicate to the finish shop that the revolver should be blued.

P.W.Herman · #11 05-24-2018, 05:03 PM

I have one in 32-20 and reload for it, not difficult at all and one of my favorite shooters. I'd never turn down an M&P because it's a 32-20.

glowe · #12 05-24-2018, 05:03 PM

I thought I had worn out these images, but will show them again. It clearly shows how the company named their revolvers in 1907 (1st image) catalog up until at least 1914 (2nd image), all catalogs were very consistent. The 1919 catalog shows the names were changed to M&P Round Butt and M&P Square Butt (3rd image)

It was apparent to me that the names given by the company had nothing to do with the internal changes of the revolvers, but the external design. Collectors made up their own names to signify mechanical and patent date changes and did not use the model names the company adopted during the actual production of these models. The question is which is more valid?

DWalt · #13 05-24-2018, 05:04 PM

Finding originally blued guns being nickel plated later isn't uncommon. And I'd think yours was plated outside the factory, as indicated by the plated hammer and trigger. S&W did not plate those components. Nickel plating is a fairly simple process, and any local plating job shop could have done it. It's immaterial now as to who did it or when. It is what it is, just a shooter. And I assume that is what you bought it for. BTW, the catalog pictures above show the black hard rubber grips typically used on most of S&W's round butt revolvers of all types. But similar wooden grips were available. Square butt revolvers (called the Model of 1905 prior to WWI) shipped (almost always) with wooden grips. Round butt M&P revolvers (post-WWI) are somewhat unusual.

Wiregrassguy · #14 05-24-2018, 06:01 PM

I don't want to be an agitator, but you guys are confusing marketing with engineering. S&W could Market the revolvers based on appearance because it was convenient. But with engineering, you have to be more precise. I think Supica and Nahas chose the engineering because it was more precise in identifying what you have. People come here all the time asking quote what do I have unquote. For the round butt Model 1905 you can't call them Model 1902 when they have features that aren't commensurate with Model 1902. It's like calling a 38 M&P a pre model 10. If you're going to get anal, at least be consistent.

Guy

DWalt · #15 05-24-2018, 07:26 PM

" For the round butt Model 1905 you can't call them Model 1902 when they have features that aren't commensurate with Model 1902. "

I can, and I will continue to do so.

jebstuart · #16 05-25-2018, 06:06 AM

I know this 1902/1905 debate has been going on for a long time.
For me it's a simple question. Should engineering/design changes or marketing/sales material be used in identifying "engineering/design" changes? To me there will always be square butt 1902's and round butt 1905's.
When I have any technical question, I ask for the engineer, not the salesman.

S&WsRsweet · #17 05-25-2018, 06:33 AM

I have a M&P in 32/20 I shoot quite a bit it is a very accurate revolver . I also reload the round and have another firearm chambered in it that I can run up to close to 30 carbine performance in the caliber. The 32/20 while not as popular in a large way today has a cult fan base of users who know what this great little cartridge ic capable of .I wouldn't fire any high pressure reloads in your revolver but I have found the brass lasts quite well .Order yourself some Remington or Winchester cartridges and have at it you will enjoy the round .welcome to the forum and let us know how it shoots.