Popped into LGS and what do I find? A shiny 6" model 1905 32-20. By the SN 114430, the book says that it is a fourth model, but I thought the third model had the mushroom ejector rod knob? It wears a much later set of stocks. Which are the proper stocks that this one should have? There are a few flakes and freckle, but a very presentable example. Now to find some ammo.

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Matthew Conrad

I thought that number had a familiar ring to it---I have 114655---also shiny (but darker in color)---also with mushroom, and 6", and with non-medallion convex. So maybe the book doesn't know about mushrooms.

Then there's what seems to be a lot older one, 42694---also shiny but darker---also with mushroom, but 6 1/2"---and different grips (different from its younger sibling)----non medallion, sort of flat/concave. And it doesn't say MADE IN U.S.A.----maybe it's from BANGLADESH.

Ralph Tremaine

It is definitely a Fourth Change. The Made in U.S.A and the 32-20 CTG mark on the barrel happened after about May, 1922.

As for the extractor rod, that shape started in c. 1902 and continued into the late 1920s. While conventional wisdom says it went away in the middle of 1927, there are very reasonable doubts about that with respect to the .32-20. We have seen them on guns with serial numbers right up into the 140,000s. And consider that the highest number issued was 144684 in either late 1929 or early 1930.

The bottom line on this matter is that the change in the extractor rod shape has no correlation to McHenry/Roper's identification of engineering changes. You simply can't make that work on either the .38 or the .32-20.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Ralph
I show that one as a target model, shipped on August 21, 1923. I would assume that one is marked Made in U.S.A. Correct?

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Hello conrad, you made a nice snag. From the pics looks good.
Go shoot that ole girl, they are fun.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

That would be the one---and is marked MADE IN U.S.A.

The other is also a target, and shipped December 22, 1908--just in time for Christmas.

Ralph Tremaine

Sweet Christmas, that's a beautiful gun! I am definitely jealous.

I have one just like yours only in 5" and a few freckles. great fun to shoot. I reload my own 32-20. Mine has the same stocks as yours so I assume they are correct.

These are about 4-500,000 digits off from my serial number. Maybe they messed up at the factory.

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Matthew Conrad

The grips on this gun came into being late 20's/early 30's. I have them (numbered to their frames) on both K and N frames of the period---differing only in size (and size of medallions).

I recall seeing the various grips and their chronology treated in SCSW. I suspect they are treated in great detail for those interested in such minutia

Ralph Tremaine.

I believe your grips were originally on a .38 M&P from the 1930s.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Ralph,
Thank you for the reminder to research grips in the SCSW. I would guess that your target model 1904 4th would give me a pretty good idea as to when mine shipped. Being a target model however, do you think there was a significant difference in vault waiting time before being shipped compared to a standard model?

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Matthew Conrad

I am dimly aware of a consensus to the effect targets sat around for awhile----longer than standard guns. That said, I don't have the first clue why that would be the case. I've heard it's because they didn't sell as many targets----as standards---and that's a sure enough fact. It's a fact that would provide the reason they didn't make as many targets----not why they'd sit around longer.

Now, without knowing anything about what I'll call the manufacturing process---other than more/different machining is required for targets, it occurs to me they may very well have made the target guns in batches---devoting the available resources entirely to the production of targets for a period of time deemed to be adequate to meet demand for some time to come. And once done, they'd get back to making their bread and butter models.

Taking M&P's as the only example that comes to mind right off, the fact they made as many as they did over time suggests they were shipped more or less immediately after completion----while the batch of M&P targets (assuming they were in fact made in such batches) are going to sit around for a spell.

That makes sense to me. Whether or not it's factual is a different matter altogether.

Ralph Tremaine

Correction on mine, it doesn't have medallions on the stocks. # 143008 so I believe mine is near the end of production.