Help with a Victory

jonfon10 · #1 06-22-2018, 12:50 AM

A year ago I received a victory model from a customer who just wanted to get rid of it. Lucky me I guess. The problem has been finding information about it. sn is V460866. everything is matching but here is where I am coming up short on info. It has no proof markings on it at all. A 4" barrel marked 38s&w CTG(my reading and looking in the s&w standard catalog 4th edition that most 38 s&w were 5 inch). The cylinder appears to be 38 special(the gentleman gave me a box of old super vel with the gun). But when you go to eject them (unspent) the seem to be falling out of the ejector and back into the cylinder. The gun has a plugged lanyard loop and mother of pearl grips. The finish is all but gone and does not seem to have been parked. Their is P proof marking under the barrel and on the cylinder. Under the crane arm on the frame is U 4501. Any help would be grateful.

Absalom · #2 06-22-2018, 01:16 AM

You have a former British Service version of the Victory from late 1943 which has been severely modified.

The barrel was shortened from 5”, it was apparently refinished resulting in the disappearance of markings (I can’t even make out the caliber, but you say it’s 38 S&W CTG), the lanyard hole was not very elegantly plugged, and the ill-fitting pearls are replacements. Based on your description, the cylinder was reamed to fit .38 Special. The U 4501 are just a fitter’s mark and assembly number from the factory.

Are there any traces of the US PROPERTY stamp on the left topstrap discernible?

Overall, not much flattering left to be said about it

Attached a picture of what it originally looked like.

opoefc · #3 06-22-2018, 01:22 AM

The barrel has been cut back to it's current length from it's original 5 inch length. The cylinder is .38S&W caliber that has been reamed to allow chambering of a .38 Spl. round, which is sightly smaller in diameter. The gun never had any proof marks and shouldn't have any, as it was never sold as surplus in a country where proofing was required, such as Great Britain after WW2. The U4501 is a work/assembly number used to track parts during manufacturing and has no bearing on anything after the gun was shipped. Close serial numbers were .38S&W calibers with 5 in. barrels, sent to the Hartford Ordnance Depot for shipments to Great Britain. The stocks are after market. Originals were smooth walnut . Ed.

jonfon10 · #4 06-22-2018, 03:15 AM

Unfortunately there is no British or US property marks on the gun what so ever or that you can make out. I can't even find the ordnance department proof. All I can see is a faded S&W logo and Made in the USA. I did read that none property marked guns were sold to the Postal service etc but nothing else. The question is would it be save to fire 38 sw out of the gun or should I stick with 38 specials. When I put the 38 s&w in there seems to me to be way to much cylinder left.

Would it be worth getting a letter on?

The story I forgot to mention in my original post is the man who gave it to me said his grandfather carried it while guarding a senator during the war. That is a big reason why I was having trouble with finding stuff. Who know if it is true or just thing passed down from generation to generation.

Wiregrassguy · #5 06-22-2018, 09:15 AM

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! You should not have a problem shooting .38 S&W if you want. The BSR and US Victory cylinders were the same except for chamber diameter. There is a shoulder on a BSR chamber that is considerably further from the exit than for a Special CTG...sorta like .357 Mag and .38 Special. But that shouldn't affect anything.

I don't recommend getting a letter. You are not likely to get any additional information and the gun is not collectible anyway.

As far as the story goes, you'd have a heck of a time confirming it.

Targets Guy · #6 06-22-2018, 09:23 AM

I have two; one on either side of yours.

V450985 shipped 11/43 (5" barrel, .38SW)

V477114 shipped 12/43 (4" barrel, .38 special)

Muley Gil · #7 06-22-2018, 11:10 AM

Welcome to the Forum.

"The cylinder appears to be 38 special(the gentleman gave me a box of old super vel with the gun)."

I would NOT shoot Super Vel ammo in that revolver. Back in the early '70s, my dad bought a .38 special Military & Police that was shipped in 1952. The clerk at the gun shop also sold him a box of Super Vel. We went out to shoot it. My dad fired 6 shots and I fired 6 shots. My mom fired 1 shot and the revolver lock up tight. The forcing cone had split.

Now, we had no idea of how many rounds of ammo had gone through it or what strength the ammo was that had previously been shot in it. Super Vel was known for being hotter than standard ammo. I would keep the Super Vel and shoot regular, not +P, ammo.

BTW, many of these old British Victory models have had the chambers deepened for .38 special. Can you post a picture of the cylinder, taken from the rear, that shows the chambers? A rechambered cylinder will show two rings in the chambers. .38 S&W ammo is shorter and slightly wider than .38 special.

Art Doc · #8 06-22-2018, 11:21 AM

More likely the chambers have been reamed for 38 Special ammo. The bore is a tad oversize for Specials and cases may swell or split when fired. You can still use proper 38 S&W ammo but it costs more.

jonfon10 · #9 06-22-2018, 12:48 PM

Thanks guys. When i go the gun I bought some 38 s&w ammo because that's what the barrel said. I also receive an old box of it from a costumer who traded in an out Forehand arms. Then I started doing research and got "worried" I couldnt shoot the ammo. SO I thought maybe I can get a webley in 38/200 to go with my enfield haha. Funny how that works. I included pics of the cylinder front and rear. The FMJ is 38 special the LRN is 38 s&w.