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Old 06-23-2018, 10:52 AM
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Pre-war 2" M&P w/ Mystery Markings! Update: Letter! Pre-war 2" M&P w/ Mystery Markings! Update: Letter! Pre-war 2" M&P w/ Mystery Markings! Update: Letter! Pre-war 2" M&P w/ Mystery Markings! Update: Letter! Pre-war 2" M&P w/ Mystery Markings! Update: Letter!  
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Default Pre-war 2" M&P w/ Mystery Markings! Update: Letter!

A very nice gentleman gave me this gun, and boy what a gun. I can't wait to get it lettered.

I've been after a true pre-war snub for a while now. I keep coming... close.

The gun on top is a Model of 1902 with a factory 2" barrel on it. Followed by a pre-war shipped/finished post war, then my new one(!), and another pre-war shipped/finished post war with upgraded fixed target sights (still a mystery who did that work)



The finish on these real pre-war guns is just so amazing. I love that this is a good shooter grade gun, I plan on doing some of that with it soon!





A couple glamour shots.

And here are the mystery markings.



At first I thought I saw P O A, but the more I look at it, and look at the orientation of the A (the only really clear marking), I think the 'P' is actually a U that was double stamped on there.

So I think that it says UOA or U something A

Opinions? Can anyone shed some light on the markings? Maybe the letter will clarify when I get it?

If you click on the images you should be able to make them very large if you need.





And for good measure, the frame, and a S/N that I know someone around here is going to want for some crazy database they happen to keep :









Update:






Last edited by SixgunStrumpet; 09-11-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:01 AM
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I envy you... I recently missed out on a true pre-war RB snubby M&P. Guess I'll have to keep trying. No ideas on your markings.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:15 AM
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If it is UOA one possibility is a college PD although I think those were pretty scarce before WWII.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:16 AM
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Reminds me of Paint your Wagon movie when the miner told the mormon "its just not right for you to have so many of something we have none of." Very nice and congrats.

Charlie
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:21 PM
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Very nice collection of round butt snubbies. I donít really have any ideas about the marking on the butt. If I read your serial number right it looks like 525Xxx. If it is ,and I donít want to rain on anyoneís parade, but that number dates the frame to mid 20ís. That would be awfully early for a gun that was authorized in 1933. I realize that S&W did not ship in serial# order, but thatís 7or 8 years earlier than the first snubby. There was a discussion many years ago when Pace40 had the market cornered on these that someone had a very early serial number like yours and it turned out that it didnít start out as a 2Ē. If your serial number is 625Xxx than it is very close to mine which shipped on November 27th 1933. Iím sure the factory letter will straighten everything out. They are really cool guns and you have a very nice collection. Here is mine, which I have posted many times. I hope itís not getting tiresome. Bill
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:29 PM
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The sn starts with a 6

Phone possum... Posting

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Old 06-23-2018, 01:08 PM
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Serial is 626XXX. It's right in line with the pre war snubby 38 M&Ps.

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Old 06-23-2018, 02:00 PM
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Nice snubby!

I think it's: P. C. J.

I think the letters are stamped with the first letter being a 'P'.
It had been hit at lest 3 or 4 times.
If it was a (sideways) U,,the left serif of it is awfully long compared to what we would assume to be the right serif ,,instead I think you are looking at the lower half of the verticle part of the letter 'P' (Block letter style).
A broken stamp or poor strike results in the rest of the mark or lack of it.

Middle letter I think is a poorly struck 'C'.
You can see most of the the letter, from 9 oclock to it's lower end at 5 oclock,,,then a missing part of it is gone. Then again just the tip at 2 oclock barely making a hit is the other end of the C.

That 3rd I think is stylized 'J'.
A long extended hook to the left and a sharp point and pull back forming the lower portion of the letter J.
The vertical part of the letter clearly visable extending upwards off of that.


There are periods betw each letter in the form of very small square open boxes.

Lots of scratches and other dents from handling.

I enlarged the pic greatly to get my opinion. It's the way I'm used to viewing things when I work.
https://i.imgur.com/bJAX41Sh.jpg

I came up with a couple possibilitys like,
Penobscot County Jail (Bangor, Maine)
Passaic County Jail (Passaic, NJ)

The L/E possibilitys just popped up on a simple Google search after I decided what I thought the letters were. I wasn't trying to push the ownership in that direction predisposed.
None of the other ones seemed like they'd have much to do with a 38 revolver!


Anyway, that's what my eyes see.
...Might be all wrong,,that seems to happen a lot lately,,

Last edited by 2152hq; 06-23-2018 at 08:23 PM. Reason: added enlargement pic / link
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Old 06-23-2018, 04:26 PM
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Holy smoke. As I am at a loss for words, I'll defer to Christoper Walken ... (a well deserved WOW for you) ...

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Old 06-23-2018, 04:47 PM
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It just looks like it will be fun to shoot.

A prewar snubbie is certainly on my short list.
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:29 PM
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At first glance I thought U. S. A.
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:20 PM
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As long as we're guessing...I think the last letter is a clear "A" and that there may be a letter between the "U" and the "C" or "G" (not an "O"). My guess is "UFGA" for United Fruit Growers Association. Banana wars anyone?
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:58 PM
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Caleb

Speaking of serial numbers, would you mind sending me the full serial numbers on the other three guns . I already have the serial number of the late-shipped one.

My email is mpriwer@comcast.net.

Regards, Mike
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:30 PM
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Here's mine....
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:18 PM
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The more I stare at this the more [partial] letters I see. It's like looking at clouds!
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:23 PM
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And there is always the possibility that they are someone's initials.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:28 PM
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What I notice is the grips faired much better than the revolvers finishes
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:54 AM
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You need a big pic of it..

https://i.imgur.com/bJAX41Sh.jpg
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
You need a big pic of it..

https://i.imgur.com/bJAX41Sh.jpg
Try this: https://i.imgur.com/bJAX41S.jpg

I'll try to get a bunch more pictures of it here in a second.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:51 AM
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And my battery died, but I snapped this:

Big Links:

https://i.imgur.com/fBSy8tE.jpg

or

https://i.imgur.com/MxtHACO.jpg



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Old 06-24-2018, 10:09 AM
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Try rubbing a white crayon over the markings.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet View Post
Try this: https://i.imgur.com/bJAX41S.jpg

I'll try to get a bunch more pictures of it here in a second.
Now I see the last letter as an A in your enlarged picture.
Can't see that in mine.
Duped again!,,Start over time!
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:41 PM
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Any update?
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:44 PM
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Yep!







So, with the new baby, sleep isn't my thing any more.

Looking at this letter though I have two questions:

If this was a loan to a re-seller to put in their salesman's kits, it would have eventually been returned to S&W, right? If so, is there any way to figure out what happened to it after that?

The second thing is in regard to the stocks. The stocks that I have on it were put there by the very kind man who gifted it to me. The letter indicates round butt, but not if they are rubber or wood. Both could have been an option here I think, just wondering which would be right.

Not that it matters *too* much. I have a set of grips in the mail that will render the point moot in my book, just curious.

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Old 09-11-2018, 10:42 AM
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Neat gun.
Being a salesman's sample, it probably shipped with the standard grips- black hard rubber. The vast majority of 2" guns I've had and seen had BHR.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet View Post
If this was a loan to a re-seller to put in their salesman's kits, it would have eventually been returned to S&W, right? If so, is there any way to figure out what happened to it after that?

Ask Roy.
Maybe they just kept them for years and sold them to customers in the drought of WW II and paid S&W. You don't need samples when ya got nuthin to sell!


Maybe the salesmen 'liberated' them or bought them for themselves.


Interesting that the invoice says-
Quote:
To replace .38 N.D. 's in Salesman's Kits
which are to be returned to our stock
That sounds like the Factory had decided that the 2" M&P was to be "THE" Pocket Gun they would promote.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:05 AM
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Federal Laboratories manufactured and sold tear gas and riot suppression gear, not firearms, so it doesn't make sense that this was a sales sample.

Federal Laboratories - Wikipedia

Perhaps they were issued to their traveling sales people for their protection while on the road.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMFnLA View Post
Federal Laboratories manufactured and sold tear gas and riot suppression gear, not firearms, so it doesn't make sense that this was a sales sample.

Federal Laboratories - Wikipedia

Perhaps they were issued to their traveling sales people for their protection while on the road.
Wikipedia is not very complete here. Have a look at this old ad, and note the last line:

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Old 09-11-2018, 02:06 PM
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Not to mention SOLE DISTRIBUTORS of the Thompson......
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixgunStrumpet View Post
Wikipedia is not very complete here. Have a look at this old ad, and note the last line:

Good find!
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