Just hammered this slug out of the barrel of a newly purchased S&W .32-20. Any ideas as to causation would be appreciated.

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It's not big enough for my tired old eyes to be sure, but the rifling looks a bit strange......

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Merle, retired
western PA

Was it a handload? No powder in the bullet is a classic cause...

Supposed to be factory loading.

What brand Ammo ?


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HSM, Stevensville, MT. 100 grain JHP

Sometime it happens to factory ammo - I have seen cases with no flash hole......

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Merle, retired
western PA

For starters how far down the barrel did it travel ?
If only an inch or so it could have been only a primed case.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Revolver is 4" barrel - slug stopped about 1/2 way - couple inches.

Check the bore for a ring. It may have happened before.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks next question are you the one that tried to fire it ? And did it sound odd ?

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

No ring in barrel. I fired it. No unusual sound. It was first time I shot it. Seemed kinda quiet but ammo & revolver type are both new to me.

Can't help but I would note that when I was shopping for a 32-20 I saw MANY revolvers (S&W and Colt) with bulged barrels. Way more than any other caliber.

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No life story has happy end.

Here's a pic of the culprit

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That's a nice looking 1899 .32-20.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Insufficient propellant is my guess as to cause.

I'd recommend not shooting any more of those factory loads in that old girl. You may also want to pull a few of the factory bullets to check on their powder levels and contact the mfg. Best to use some mild cowboy action loads in it; JMHO. -S2

In one that old I'd stick to lead bullets only also.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Seemed kinda quiet ...glad you checked

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Thanx everybody for the help. BTW she's serial number 2207.

"Can't help but I would note that when I was shopping for a 32-20 I saw MANY revolvers (S&W and Colt) with bulged barrels. Way more than any other caliber."

Art Doc has made a very legitimate observation. Over the 60 or so years I have been shooting the vast majority of bulged barrels I have seen have been .32-20 revolvers with S&W being more common than Colts. The only reason I can see is the cartridge is long and thin and commonly uses very small charges for its volume. This results in poor ignition, even with factory ammunition. My own 6 1/2" !902 1st change has a bad bulge right at the barrel lug. I bought it that way about 1963 for either $12.50 or $15.

The best way to to avoid a "squib" is to hold the revolver muzzle up when cocking it to settle the powder at the rear of the case and around the primer. The second thing is do not shoot jacketed bullets in your gun! Two reasons for this. One, a stuck bullet from a squib can be a dirty B-Kitty to remove from the barrel, lead bullets are easy! And, two, S&W revolvers made before WWII were made of much softer steels than after the war. Jacketed bullets will wear these barrels far faster than lead bullets will!

My favorite caliber is .32-20, I have about a dozen all together. No, I have never had a squib! I don't load fast powders like Bullseye that use a small volume charge, and I have always made a point of cocking the gun while pointed up as mentioned above! I have fired probably 30,000 rounds from my .32-20s, 99%+ handloads, and probably not more than 2-300 rounds with jacketed bullets. Most of those have been through my 1894 Marlin.

Alk8944,
What is your favorite powder for loading the .32-20?
I had a good load with SR4756 but that powder went the way of the dodo.

Curl

I use unique powder in mine,,,,,,,,,

As a general rule, I think of the 32-20 as a relatively loud round. If I pulled the trigger on one of mine and it were "kinda quiet" I would, as you rightfully did, stop shooting and check for something wrong.v

I agree with previous posters who suggest only using mild loads with lead bullets and leaving the hotter, jacketed stuff for later guns with stronger, more consistent steels. Your 1899 deserves a little more tender treatment. If ever a gun cried out for hand loading with cast bullets, this is it!

Regards,
Froggie

I would suggest loads using trail boss. The 32-20 is case sensitive, if you go to shoot at a snake you might get a pop, and stuck bullet again. TB is a good powder for mild loads in cases that are long.

I have that still....lol and PB

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Trail Boss powder for me and 93 grain LRN. I always keep the bullets light in these old revolvers, since pressures will be lower at any given velocity. No need to have heavy bullets since they will all go through paper. Actually have a box of 76 grain LRN bullets for 32 S&W DAs and am thinking of trying them out in my 1899s.

One possible reason why you see bulged barrels in 32-20s vs 38 Special because the 32-20 barrels have very thick walls. I bet many 38 barrels would have split and needed replacement, while a 32-20 barrel would absorb the abnormal pressure spikes.

Lastly, I am in the camp that one should not use jacketed bullets in a 120 year old gun. Pressures are higher than lead bullets of equal weight and charge. The only good reason to use such a bullet for target shooting is if you want high velocities, which you definitely do not want in your 1899.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Only ammo I can find available on line is Winchester 100 grain lead flat nose. Would this be ok?

Depends, if it is older stock it may be the rifle ammo. But I do not believe any manufacturer today is making 32-20 in the rifle loads. The rifle loads are definitely not safe for 100 year old gun.

try looking for cowboy action loads - they are also very mild

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Merle, retired
western PA

According to HMS
Those are self defense loads running at
980fps.


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Ordered 50 rnds Ultramax Cowboy Action.

The "rifle only" load used a 80 grain jacketed hollow point bullet and the head stamp had "HV" stamped upon it.

Some Remington ammo used jacketed soft points. These are OK in older guns, as they are not loaded hot. You can also find lead flat nose and plated lead flat nose loads.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Mostly Unique.

I'm loading 115gr lead flat points over 3.2gr of 231. Also 85gr Hornady XTP over 3.8gr 231. I shoot the 115gr lead flat points most often. Mild load with little recoil.

Not to beat a dead horse but I gotta bring up another question. Just won a Winchester 1892 born in 1907 in an auction. What's the consensus on shooting those jacketed rounds in the rifle?

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Oh hell - that's just wrong.

I am sure it would be OK to shoot that ammo since the lever action Winchesters are strong actions. My take on the differences between copper and lead is that lead is s lubricant, while copper offers no lubrication, so traveling down the barrel with increased friction. Pressures can be higher and wear can be higher than lead.

I believe the biggest reasons to use copper is for increased expansion of the bullet to provide improved killing power when hunting game, plus copper provides protection against leading in barrels. It is now understood that with the proper lead alloy, you can shoot up to 2000 fps before leading becomes a problem and above that velocity, copper can be deposited in the rifling which is even harder to clean than lead fouling.

I am sure that you will never "shoot out" the riflings in the barrel of an 1892 Winchester, so light use of jacketed bullets will probably be fine. If you intend to shoot that rifle at cowboy action events lead is the only bullet allowed. If you intend on putting lots of boxes of ammo through the old lever-action doing target shooting, lead will do the least harm to the rifle.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I have an old Marlin in 32-20 from around 1905. The bore is a little rough, and it shoots jacketed bullets much better than cast bullets.

Wouldn't have worked very well in this case.
Kind of slow too I might add.
Calling Jack :-)

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

If 980 fps is achieved in a 5" or 6" barrel, it would easily approach 1300 fps or more in a 24" rifle barrel. Not so much difference between that load and the old CIL ammo.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Keep in mind that your jacketed rounds from HSM, Stevensville, MT. 100 grain JHP , may have a low powder charge.

If fired in a rifle you may very well have the same thing happen, so be sure you check to make sure they are coming out of the barrel of the rifle when fired. You don't want a bulged barrel in that 1892 .

Don’t have a 32-20, but do have some HSM 38 Special ammo.
Before I read this thread, I thought that I liked it!
Anybody having trouble with any other caliber HSM ammo?

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Never had any problems with HSM bullets, I used to shoot .308 range stuff through my M1-A with never a hitch.
I've had more than my fair share of problems reloading for the 32-20, I would say they were all my fault. It is not an easy cartridge to reload in my opinion, care is to be exercised at the case mouth more than usual. Once you have it figured out and understand it foibles it is as straight forward as the rest, just a little touchy.

I tried to reload a batch too soon after running through my sonic cleaner and had a series of failed primers with more than one squib, I pulled the rest of the bullets and started over, problem solved, never rush a reloading process..lesson learned.


Never had a problem with any factory Remington or Winchester 32-20 ammunition. Right as rain and all of it function without any problems through my S&W 32-20's. My wife's kitchen gun is loaded with Winchester factory stuff...100 gr. lead round nose.

Fired 6 rounds of the Ultramx through it yesterday. All good. Thanx y'all for comments & advice.

Wow, all the way through paper!
Kidding aside though, my old S&W 32-20 was a very accurate revolver with modern Winchester 100 gr lead.

I have a few 32-20 in both revolver and rifle form and my normal load is 4227 under a 115/118gn FP cast bullet. Those "cowboy" loads are usually going to be slower than factory velocity ammo. If you are trying to avoid bullets stuck in your bore I'm not sure slower bullets is the way I would go. But I think you are right is staying with lead if your bore is in any kind of shape.

I believe I read somewhere recently (maybe Handloader) that IMR 4227 is no longer produced. Anyone know if this is true?

If so, it is too bad. It is a good powder for certain applications. I think I only have a pound of it left.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

You WILL NOT find any of the HV rifle loads on any dealer's shelves today (except maybe an antique ammo dealer). It hasn't been loaded for nearly 60 years. All of it used 80 grain jacketed HP bullets. None used lead bullets.

I will not fire any revolver rapid fire. Too much chance of barrel bulging if there is a squib load. I like to hear each round fire before I pull the trigger again. Over the years I have experienced several squib loads that could have been disastrous had I not recognized them in time for what they were. And jacketed bullets are much more difficult to pound out of a barrel than are lead bullets. And in one case (involving a rifle) I nearly gave up on pounding a stuck jacketed bullet out. I shot it out instead. Old trick - take a primed case and give it about a half-charge of smokeless powder. Then chamber and fire it. It will blow out the stuck bullet without damage. That trick will not work for a revolver.

I don't know about that. Hodgdon makes (made?) H4227 which is essentially the same powder. So is Shooter's World Heavy Pistol, which is a ball powder. 4227 is also a great powder for lighter loads in CF rifles using cast lead bullets. I use it in both .300 Savage and .308 Win for lead bullet loads.