When I started actively collecting S&W revolvers I made a promise to myself to stick with Victory's only. While Pre-Victory is a collectors term I decided to include them too and not be breaking the promise. Since S&W decided to continue the Victory serial numbers into the S prefix revolvers I have designated them "Post-Victory" to absolve myself of any guilt. This works for me anyway.

Like another member always says, without pictures it did not happen!

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Gary
SWCA 2515

It's a free country. You can designate them whatever you want.

Just make sure you come up with a precise definition and are clear what you are including: SV prefix in utility configuration? SV prefix in commercial configuration? S prefix all the way to S 999999?

I doubt a lot of people will follow your lead, so be prepared to explain what the heck you're talking about every time you slip the term into a discussion

So, how about all the wartime Victory Models that got reworked and had an "S" stamped on them?

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Personal opinion. Most collectors consider pre-Victories as being those M&Ps produced for military use (Commonwealth or USA) having SNs sans the V-prefix, and Victories as those having either a V- or SV-prefix. It's up to you if you want to go either direction beyond those. As the British were buying up whatever guns they could get wherever they could get them during the period after the fall of France, it's justifiable to consider civilian M&Ps made in the 1940-41 period as being the equivalent of a pre-Victory.

I'd pay a premium for one of those because of the trip back to the factory.

The subject of my newly minted nomenclature would be S811338 thru S999999 manufactured from 1945 to 1948.

The original post was just humorous self-criticism about justifying the purchase of yet another S&W revolver. I wasn't trying to reinvent the wheel.

Whilst not my arena of focus didnt the "S" in SV indicate Victory era guns with the new hammer block safety ?

If so post Victory would really apply to the "S" prefix long action post WWII production guns assembled from wartime
parts built for commercial consumption .

I realize that

But picking arguments over nomenclature invented ex-post-facto by collectors, and what is included in which category and why, is one of the oldest pastimes here. So how could one possibly resist if you provide the cue?

I should re-open my contention that the Victory term itself is unhistorical. There is only that one famous war-time S&W ad announcing the availability of the 2” model of the “Victory” (which the ad puts in quotation marks) to DSC customers, quite possibly a one-time shot from some smart-aleck in marketing.

In contrast to the Colt Commando, which had the name on the barrel, there is no evidence that anyone used the Victory moniker during the war. In all factory and military documents I’ve seen so far, it was always just the S&W .38 M&P. That’s particularly obvious in the documents relating to the 1944 hammer block affair, reprinted in Pate’s book, where both the Colt and the S&W .38 revolvers are discussed.

I think if you had asked any sailor or soldier in 1944 about the “Victory model”, the response would have been “Huh? What?”

[QUOTE=Absalom;140087470]I realize that

But picking arguments over nomenclature invented ex-post-facto by collectors, and what is included in which category and why, is one of the oldest pastimes here. So how could one possibly resist if you provide the cue?

Here is the culprit that caused the thread. At $345 including shipping and x-fer I couldn't pass on it. Post-Victory to me but if anyone else in the forum wants to call it a pre-10 I won't be offended.

Attached Images

	postvictory2.jpg (45.8 KB, 56 views)
	previctory.jpg (47.7 KB, 61 views)

For the price, that’s a steal. Looks to be in great shape. I would just call that a post-war M&P.

Speaking of terminology: anyone calling it a pre-10 would also get corrected by someone

Since it is pre-1948 and still has the long action, it is usually not included in the pre-Model 10 range, which most collectors limit to the short-action guns from 1948 to the start of model numbers.

The added S (in SV) did indicate the presence of the 1945 improved hammer drop safety. Likely very few (if any) leftover wartime parts were used in postwar S-series revolver production. Some unknown number of SV-series revolvers were assembled after V-J Day using wartime components remaining in S&W factory inventory, such revolvers being given the commercial blued finish. All of those were sold during the early months of 1946. Thereafter, just the S-prefix SNs were used.

Makes sense as IIRC my post war S serial M&P frame (like Chief Daves above) has no lanyard ring hole.

If so then the S prefix guns are the true pure "Post war" guns ?

The transition was fluid; I believe there are some early S-prefix-only guns that still have the plugged lanyard hole. Jack (JP@AK) knows more details on that.

Then you would necessarily have to have three categories:
Pre Victory
Victory
and Post Victory

Correct?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That's the idea and I have examples of each.

I only collect Victories that have had the barrels shortened and plastic stag grips attached.

No shortage of those on the online auctions, gives you a lot to choose from and not much competition from other bidders. Out of respect to you as a fellow forum member I'll make it a point to not bid against you.