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Old 07-03-2018, 05:38 PM
M_conrad_0311 M_conrad_0311 is offline
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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Default Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.

Seen this in a LGS. I thought the asking price was astronomical. I came home, pulled out the other good book and find that an excellent Model 18 value at $750.00. 18-1 version worth a premium 25-50%. Nickel finish not cataloged, but produced, 75% premium.

Now I have never been a mathmagician, but with positive rounding up, I am at $1500-$2000 for an excellent example. The book is several years old, so lets add 30% for inflation. I still only come up with $2600. What should a buyer realisticly expect to pay for such an example?

I am sorry for the quality, but here is a poor photo taken through the glass.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:42 PM
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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Is it lettered?
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:54 PM
M_conrad_0311 M_conrad_0311 is offline
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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I do not know if there is a letter or not. I did not have time to speak with him today as he was taking a late lunch break at 3pm. Usually, this guys stuff is righteous.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:57 PM
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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What is the asking price? I agree, if an astronomical sum is asked then a letter of authenticity is mandatory as a first step. Haggling can commence immediately afterward .
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:09 PM
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If there is no verification that this is a factory nickel, meaning it originally shipped from the factory that way. You're dead in the water. There's no way to evaluate it, even with nice clear pics, unless we know for sure it is factory nickel. Now, if it has the original box with end label indicating nickel finish, you're in business, depending on the asking price. You can share it with us, no one is going to buy it out from under you.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:15 PM
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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Approaching half way to four zeros. I am not worried about anyone buying it out from under me. I do not think I will spend that on this one, unless of course it turns out to be one heck of a great deal. I was just trying to see what others opinions as to what the price should be without divulging the asking price. Here is a photo of tag and SN.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:33 PM
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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The nickel Pre-18's, 18's, 18-1's and early 18-2's we've handled over the years all had blue front sight bases and blades (with or without red inserts) which was standard prior to the mid-late 1960's. The ONLY question: Is the finish original ? As in, 'N' stamps on; left grip frame, cylinder face under extractor star and bottom-flat of the barrel. If not, the nickel-plating isn't original.

If it IS real, a mid-range number between 3 and 6 followed by three zero's isn't outa' line.

DC

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Old 07-03-2018, 06:38 PM
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That is one sweet looking gun for sure with Diamond targets too. But at the price you show on the tag you are in Registered Magnum territory on that. I much rather have a RM than a 22lr!! It sure looks nice but half his asking seems more reasonable to me? I am no expert by any means but even with the premiums seems a bit high. K32's are going for less than he is asking. Unless he has box with label proving it is factory I would forget about it. Just my opinion.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:14 PM
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The front sight looks to be nickeled, but it may just be the quality of the picture.

If I wanted one really bad, and that's a BIG if, I wouldn't buy it without a letter.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:07 PM
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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Thank you for the information David. I will take a better look at it later this week and add additional photos.

Daddio, I agree, I too would rather have an RM or work toward a TL target. This 18 does not fit into my collection any where, but it is cool.

John, in the photo, it does appear to be a nickeled front sight. I cannot recall for certain if it was blue or nickeled. I will also see if there happens to be a letter that accompanies the revolver.

Thank you all for the questions and input.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:31 PM
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Here's mine. Sent back to the factory about 1970 to be nickeled. Came back nickeled with BLUE ejector on the cylinder. Upon return I added RR/WO. Target hammer and smooth ranger trigger. Mine came with smooth rosewood targets......The one you are looking at would have to be authentic before I would go above $750.
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:41 AM
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See if they'll let you remove the grips to check for factory re-nickel. Proof would be on left side of grip frame.
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:04 AM
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Without a letter I wouldn't consider it.
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
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Without a letter I wouldn't consider it.
I have a factory renickled k22 that does not have any markings anywhere giving it away. I bought it off a guy who sent it back to S&W in the 70s to be done as he did many others.

Markings are just helpful,not absolute.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:38 PM
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If it was shipped in nickel there should be a letter N stamped on left grip frame. Doesn't prove it hasn't been refinished but at least you know it started out as plated.

For that kind of money I would demand the letter come with the gun. Any seller who tries to get super rare collectible price without first getting the letter to document the gun is super rare collectible is a liar or a fool.
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:37 PM
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I had a nickel 4” model 18 in the 80’s and bought it new from a S@W distributor. They that would occasionally receive a variety of different and uncataloged features on guns. I had developed a friendship with the store manager who would call me when shipments arrived. There was a lot of discussion and questions about the gun but it was properly boxed, had the N on the frame and I knew where it came from. That gun is long gone after an offer of about twice MSRP.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:29 AM
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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Since the ramp base and sight blade are nickel, I am certain the revolver has been refinished. The ramp base and sight blade should be blue and pinned to the barrel with two pins that have not been polished flush to the barrel rib.

Bill
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:03 PM
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I swung by the LGS after work today and was able to speak to the owner about the 18-1. The gun does not have a letter with it but was purchased from a highly respected collector. The nickel finish looks original to me. There are a lot of micro scratches in the finish that are hard to pick up in the natural light photos. There are photos of all the questionable areas discussed previously. What do you think about the front sight base and blade? It looks like the sight blade sight base and barrel are all one piece. Was there a different front sight (service) that could have been placed on this revolver considering that it was probably a special order?

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Old 07-06-2018, 05:06 PM
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I thought I attached these to the post above.


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Old 07-06-2018, 05:18 PM
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Matthew...When this revolver was made (1962 most likely) the sight ramp and base were one piece with the ramp base pinned to the barrel with two pins that were not polished flush to the barrel rib since the blue base and ramp were pinned to the barrel after the nickel finish was completed. Later (late 60s?) the ramp base was forged with the barrel and the sight blade was pinned to the base with a single pin polished flush to it. If the nickel is original, there should be an N on the lower left hand corner of the grip frame and possibly on the cylinder in the area under the extractor. If the revolver has a change of finish to nickel by S&W, there will be no N on the grip frame, but an R-N inside of a rectangle stamped on the left hand side of the grip frame and probably a month and year code (as an example, 5 64 indicating a refinish in May 1964).

I would also guess the revolver shipped with Magna stocks and the target stocks are a replacement for those.

Only a check of the factory invoice can tell you how this revolver left the factory and if it is an 18-1 with a rare nickel finish. If you look at the revolver again, have the stocks removed and see what is stamped on the grip frame. No matter the original finish, the price seems unreasonably high to me.

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Old 07-06-2018, 05:23 PM
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Thank you Bill. Photos are in an added post while you where typing.
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:28 PM
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Based on the new photos, everything looks correct, but finish on the front sight and ramp base doesn't seem correct, but must be.

Bill
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:37 PM
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It kind of sets off a red flag that a respected collector would not have gotten a letter for such a high end gun.

Most people would want to confirm what it is for piece of mind and for resale value.

Its likely right but I would buy the letter first or ask the store owner to invest in one.

Maybe he would put a hold on the gun pending the letter results.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
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Based on the new photos, everything looks correct, but finish on the front sight and ramp base doesn't seem correct, but must be.

Bill
Really? If stamping N three times before replating raises value $3,000 to $4,000 there is plenty of motivation to stamp those Ns.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:04 PM
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Bill only stated that the new photos looked correct, other than the front sight set up. In an earlier post, he stated that it was over priced even if it was right. I agree with you, it is not correct until it is lettered. Do you see any signs of a refinishing? What should I be looking for K22fan?

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Old 07-06-2018, 08:17 PM
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It sure looks right other than the sight.

A once over with flitz then a couple ren wax sessions that gun would be sparkling.

Does your LGS normally see high end HEs in his shop?
Wondering where he might have gotten his price from.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:53 PM
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While nickel K-22's are not on my radar going to just put this out there for the guys to ponder,

First is that we have seen the small nickel run of 17-3's bring more than this 18-1 sellers ask,
Second is that while other models had the front ramp pinned to the base with factory nickel guns of that era,
the Combat Masterpiece seems to be an exception to the rule IMO.

Not casting judgement either way but if you scroll through the CM evolution you will notice by 1954 (post #34 in the thread)
It appears the CM has a ramp that is integral with the barrel.

Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy


If this is true the ramp and blade post 54 would have been nickel as well.
Since I have not seen another Model 18-1 not going to say either way but at this point am leaning towards it being factory nickel as some sort of special order.
I would definitely reach out to Roy before purchasing to confim authenticity or buy contingent on it lettering as shipping that way,
If the gun went back and was factory renickeled there would be no premium IMO.

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Old 07-06-2018, 09:55 PM
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He has several RMs in his office. He collects K22s, but they deal in a lot of new stuff. So they are somewhat familiar with high end HEs.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:19 PM
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That is the real deal and the front sight looks like the one I had. For the $ the shop is asking, do not hesitate further and either buy that gun or advise where it is!

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Old 07-07-2018, 12:00 AM
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The only thing I've spotted in your pictures that hints at a refinish is a coarser grade of abrasive was used on the bottom of the grip frame avoiding the the rectangular area that surrounds the serial number. During manufacture roll stamps are imprinted after buffing. It appears that in order to be sure to not deface the serial number the refinisher did not buff the bottom of the grip frame. Admitting that I am searching for anything to support my skepticism, that's enough to write I would not bet $3,000 that the finish is original. Like most everyone else wrote, get a letter. I'd be happy if proves me wrong.

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Do you see any signs of a refinishing? What should I be looking for K22fan?

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Old 07-07-2018, 12:07 AM
M_conrad_0311 M_conrad_0311 is offline
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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That happens to be an intentional reflection of my phone. I was getting some weird shadows and light inside the store. I used the dark reflection so that the SN would show up a little better.
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Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
The only thing I've spotted in your pictures that hints at a refinish is a coarser grade of abrasive was used on the bottom of the grip frame avoiding the the rectangular area that surrounds the serial number. During manufacture roll stamps are imprinted after buffing. It appears that in order to be sure to not deface the serial number the refinisher did not buff the bottom of the grip frame. Admitting that I am searching for anything to support my skepticism, that's enough to write I would not bet $3,000 that the finish is original. Like most everyone else wrote, get a letter. I'd be happy if proves me wrong.
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  #32  
Old 07-07-2018, 10:57 AM
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RKmesa RKmesa is offline
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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Matthew:

Those stamps look right to me, but I too would have bet that the front sight would be blue and pinned with the two pins... If it was priced for $1K I would jump on it, but at the price being asked, I would want a letter from Roy confirming the configuration. Even then, it is more than I would pay...
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2018, 02:10 PM
M_conrad_0311 M_conrad_0311 is offline
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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After much deliberation. I have to say that this 18-1 does not fit into my planned collection. Any of you that are seriously interested in this 18-1can contact me for information on its whereabouts and additional information.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:34 PM
ordnanceguy ordnanceguy is offline
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Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added. Model 18-1 Nickel. Realistic value? Additional photos added.  
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A quick pic to illustrate what Doc44 was saying in Post #20 above about how the front sight should ordinarily appear.



It's a crummy, old pic but the revolver is a factory nickel K-22 Combat Masterpiece, a pre-18. It shipped in 1955 as 1 of 6 in the same shipment.
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