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Old 07-03-2018, 06:55 PM
pumpjoc pumpjoc is offline
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Angry S&W 1903 HE 32SW Second Change Round Butt Grips

OK S&W Geniuses, Why wont the grips from other 1903 round butt revolvers fit my Second Change revolver. It has a large hump shape on the backstrap and the angle of the grip at the "medallion" area is sharper and wont accomodate repros or even original grips. I am using a set of later model Magna I frame grips that sort of fit but not really. Whats the deal? I have been trying to find any information in books and on line and there is nothing. Perplexed!! Pumpjoc
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:08 PM
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Welcome to the Forum. I cannot be certain which style stocks you have and what gun you are trying to fit them to, but lets start by clarifying what you have there? The Model 1903 was a solid hand ejector frame and came only in 32 Long, not 32 S&W. The stocks changed design over the years, but anything made up until at least the introduction of model numbers in the late 1950s fit that model revolver. The style and size of stocks that fit a Model 1903 started out in the late 1870s with the 38 Single Action revolvers. As the 38 Double Action revolvers were introduced, the same stocks were used. Finally, the 32 HE revolvers retained the same size stocks as all the models listed that preceded them.

There are stocks out there for other models and maybe you picked up a set for a different model? The J frame stocks are similar, but will not fit the I frame properly. There are Regulation Police stocks and target stocks that fit a rebated frame, but will not fit a Model 1903 properly. Could you have a 32 Regulation Police?

Pictures would be very helpful to see what you are dealing with, but the experts here will get to the bottom of your issue with photos to help.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:42 PM
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Hey Gary, Thanks for the reply. I have a nice collection of pre warv Smiths. I am aware of all you stated. I have a couple of 1903 32Long revolvers 5th variation round butt and the grips do not fit my 1903 32Long 2nd var. How do i attach pictures?
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:49 PM
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Gary, Apology , the gun is a first variation. SN# 483XX
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:11 PM
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The revolver in question wouldn't be a 32 Regulation Police would it ?
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:20 PM
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Welcome to the Forum.

Please post some pictures.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpjoc View Post
OK S&W Geniuses, Why wont the grips from other 1903 round butt revolvers fit my Second [1st] Change revolver. It has a large hump shape on the backstrap and the angle of the grip at the "medallion" area is sharper and wont accomodate repros or even original grips. I am using a set of later model Magna I frame grips that sort of fit but not really. Whats the deal? I have been trying to find any information in books and on line and there is nothing. Perplexed!! Pumpjoc
If your revolver has "a large hump shape" on the back strap different from your other 32s, it's not a S&W or it's been modified.

Where is your 32 S&W Long Model 1903 - 1st Change stamped S&W besides the cartridge line on the barrel?
Does it have Smith & Wesson in the address/patent date line on the barrel and does it have the S&W logo stamp on the side of the frame?

Does the grip frame have any evidence of being modified in the area where the grips don't fit?

The I frame 32 Hand Ejector rd butt grip frame and grips are the same size/shape from the very 1st Model of 1896 until the introduction of the Model of 1953 NEW I frame when they were lengthened 1/8". Also the same size as the Baby J frame from 1950 until 1953.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:36 PM
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Merl67 Its not a Reg Police . They have a stepped frame. I have 3.
Hondo44 Yes it is a S&W Has small logo on left side of frame, serial number on bottom of grip frame. Has NOT been customized or cut on. Gun is old but in great condition. Short grip I frame magna grips fit pretty good but the horn does not follow the contour of the frame at top.
Also there are two leaf springs in the grip area. A tensioning screw from front of grip is against the outside spring.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:41 PM
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Does the I frame mini Magna horn follow the contour of the frame at top on your other 32 pre war models?
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:52 PM
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Yes it does on my 5th change model
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:54 PM
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Is there a way i can send pics to you by email?
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:52 AM
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Yes it does on my 5th change model
Then the guns have to be different.
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:54 AM
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Is there a way i can send pics to you by email?
Yes.

jjcarter44@ sbcglobaldotnet

Just eliminate the spaces and replace the letters dot with a period.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:20 AM
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Welcome to the forum . Maybe it is a gun put together with different parts what's known as a "frankengun" I believe that would be my first guess just from the information gleaned so far ,2nd guess would be a never before known factory prototype ( if so indeed you are fortunate ) ,3rd guess would be a well done knockoff with logo and all ( if so indeed you are unfortunate) 4th guess would be a highly customized grip frame but I would think someone who would have done this would have added adjustable sights although you didn't mention it so I'm assuming no. Like I said I'm just guessing I am new to this so I read everything I can and guess at the answer testing myself but I dont generaly post my guesses I just wait and concur with Hondo44 or a couple of other experts .
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:11 AM
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You're 3rd guess is a good one. And the fourth is a distant runner up.

Haven't seen received photos yet, so the jury is still out....
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:15 AM
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I suspect a Spanish copy with the 2 flat springs. Seen it before.
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:42 AM
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I'm going to go with "Spanish copy" as well. Some of them were so sneaky with logos, etc, that a serious look is necessary to distinguish them. It would be nice if it were legit, but the more I hear, the less likely that seems.

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Old 07-04-2018, 05:34 PM
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I'm hoping for pictures. This is interesting.
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Old 07-04-2018, 05:49 PM
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You guys are killing me. It is a bonafide Smith and Wesson. In 2012 a members grand2123 and ken77539 had identical revolvers as mine. All are 1st change. All have TWO FLAT SPRINGS and HUMPED GRIP FRAMES. See if the posts 9/14/2011. There are pictures. Did I mention I still need grips for this gun??
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:43 PM
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Check ebay often. As I stated earlier, any 38 DA and 1903 into the 1930s used black hard rubber stocks of the same dimensions and style. All stocks were hand fitted to each gun while they were being finished at the factory, so slight differences in dimensions are a given.
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:19 PM
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Pumpjoc PM sent
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:46 PM
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I saw the photos and Gary will post soon.

It is a S&W.

The answer to the mystery is rare but we've all seen it at least once:

It will catch your eye immediately even w/o a comparison to a good frame.

The grip frame is bent to the rear! The good news is it looks very fixable.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:30 AM
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Cool I am glad to be wrong on the copy thing , I can sort of understand someone "customizing" the grip for a better fit for their taste but why 2 springs ? Just experimentation ? This has turned out to be an interesting thread pumpjoc thanks for starting .

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Old 07-05-2018, 08:36 AM
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Here are the images of Pumpjoc's 32 HE. What is amazing in how the lines still flow and without intimate knowledge of the correct shape looks would appear to be OK. That is severe bending, but the steel on these butt-frames should be malleable enough for a gunsmith to reshape to original configuration without damage to the gun or finish. One does not see a 6" 32 HE for sale very often.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:45 AM
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. . . I can sort of understand someone "customizing" the grip for a better fit for their taste but why 2 springs ? . . .
That was standard configuration on the early 2 HEs. No Change and 1st Change both a very elongated trigger spring.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:29 AM
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That was standard configuration on the early 2 HEs. No Change and 1st Change both a very elongated trigger spring.
Cool man this just goes to show that the education truly is worth the price of admission I learn something everytime I come on this forum .Thanks . I probably would ha e made a fool of myself at a gun show or gunshop somewhere ,much better to do it here where no one knows my true identity ,wait you guys don't know me do ya . Come on fellas stop laughing .Just kiddin seriously though stop laughing
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:37 AM
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Well guys looks like Jim (Hondo44) may have figured it out. The bend is so smooth it doesnt show any indication of heating or hammer marks. It will after i get through with it! (NOT) So I am on another mission to get it back in shape. Unless a guy with burly hands wants to shoot a dainty 1903 I frame with a customized grip frame. I may have one for sale. Thanks again Jim. Watch for later posts on this "mystery" gun.
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:06 AM
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My apologies to pumpjoc. Without pics and from the descriptions given, it was obvious yours was not a “normal” S&W, and if it had not been altered, it would not fit into the spectrum of guns built by S&W. Now that we know it has been altered, things make sense and all previous bets are off. Since the it works OK with its current grip frame configuration, I would hesitate to mess with the shape for fear of disturbing the spring geometry. Better to make a set of grips... JMHO, YMMV.

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Old 07-05-2018, 11:58 AM
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I would think the spring geometry has already been compromised. It still works and shoots great.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:28 PM
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S&W 1903 1 Variation grip frame anomaly follow up. Jim (Hondo44) was 100% correct. The grip frame had been bent back. After some manipulation with a cutting torch, five pound sledge, vice grips and some bondo I have massaged the grip frame back into alignment. Ok,Ok, I whacked it a couple time with a rubber hammer after cushioning it onto a piece of thick leather. It is back to original specs and a set of original hard rubber grips fit like a glove. I am happy. Thanks geniuses!
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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Good for you! Now post some target pictures.
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:51 PM
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"Thanks geniuses!" I take this as a sarcastic shot at all the replies. I hope I'm wrong!
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  #33  
Old 07-05-2018, 09:05 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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Originally Posted by pumpjoc View Post
S&W 1903 1 Variation grip frame anomaly follow up. Jim (Hondo44) was 100% correct. The grip frame had been bent back. After some manipulation with a cutting torch, five pound sledge, vice grips and some bondo I have massaged the grip frame back into alignment. Ok,Ok, I whacked it a couple time with a rubber hammer after cushioning it onto a piece of thick leather. It is back to original specs and a set of original hard rubber grips fit like a glove. I am happy. Thanks geniuses!
Bravo!! That's the only way to do it, just an opposite and equal blow to "put it back" where it belongs. Any other forms of persuasion have much less success!
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:06 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
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"Thanks geniuses!" I take this as a sarcastic shot at all the replies. I hope I'm wrong!


No, no, in his first post he posted in affect he came here to the 'S&W geniuses' because he was stumped and frustrated. The 'Thanks geniuses' I took as even more sincere. The problem with the written word is that it lacks voice inflection, tone, and facial expression.
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:27 PM
pumpjoc pumpjoc is offline
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Jims right. I came to the geniouses to help me. I said "Thanks, geniouses!" which I truly meant and am sincere. If I had said " Thanks, geniouses?" That would have been sarcasm. If I had said " Oh well, Ill just ask the Colt guys." now that would have been starting something.
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  #36  
Old 07-06-2018, 06:40 PM
raljr1 raljr1 is offline
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Maybe it got that way when some old time copper whacked some perp on the head with it.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:57 PM
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Maybe it got that way when some old time copper whacked some perp on the head with it.
. . . or maybe beat him mercilessly!
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:22 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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. . . or maybe beat him mercilessly!
I ain't never hit a criminal with my duty gun. However, I have had several walk into my four cell flashlight a time or two.
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