I received my factory letter on my M27 no dash S200xxx yesterday and was surprised to see that it shipped in April 1962. I’m perplexed as to how a gun that should have been made in 1959 shipped in 1962 when the 27-2 would have been shipping. Any thoughts?

It could have sat in their inventory for a while, or they could have put it together to use up parts. I have a 629-3 that was made when the 629-5 was being made.

Interesting. It was shipped to Canada so maybe that has something to do with it. I wish they’d give a date of manufacture and a ship date.

My "opinion" is the persons in charge of placing and removing guns from the vault had no specific instructions on how or where to put things and in any order to remove them. They got an order for a XYZ gun and grabbed the closest one to them, possibly one just put there yesterday, while there were a hundred stacked further back made last week or last year.. I don't think they paid a lot of attention to inventory control as long as they were making money.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

My thought: The thing to do is determine if it's actually a pre dash, a dash 1, or a dash 2.

-1, is the extractor actually still right hand thread or is it left hand?

-2, does it have the trigger guard screw?

The lack of a dash # or the dash # a gun is stamped is not always an accurate indicator of which design changes the gun actually has.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I haven’t checked the extractor thread but it does have the trigger guard screw. Plus the S200xxx serial number is pretty early.

That makes sense. I was thinking maybe it fell behind a shelf and wasn’t discovered for three years lol

S&W made "N" grip frames which were then inventoried for use in producing N-frame guns. Those grip frames were not used in numerical order. Then the frame got used to build a revolver which was inventoried. Those guns were not necessarily picked in order of serial numbers. Consequently, predicting build dates and ship date by serial number can be off by years in some cases.

You could say this is part of the "charm" of collecting Smith & Wessons or part of the frustration.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Interesting. But besides an early serial number the trigger guard screw and assuming the extractor being right hand would indicate assembly prior to 1960

The Engineering Directive (#586) to change the threads on the extractor rod and stem from right-hand to left-hand was issued on December 22, 1959. However, it took over two years to implement this change with -1 revolvers not being shipped until 1962. Directives (#734 and #735) to implement the new cylinder stop with the elimination of the cylinder stop plunder screw were issued on November 28, 1961 and it took several months to implement them with -2 revolvers being shipped late in 1962 or early in 1963.

The shipping date of a revolver and its serial number have often been the subject of discussion by collectors. S&W never manufactured or shipped guns in serial number sequence, so it is not unusual to find a revolver with a serial number much lower than its actual shipping date. Your 27 is one of these guns. I have several 44 Magnums, that by their serial number would have "usually" shipped in early 1956, but did not ship until mid-1957. The converse is also true with some guns shipping earlier than their serial number suggests. For example, 44 Magnum, S166065, would normally date to mid-1956 or later, but was actually a product sample shipping on April 2, 1956 and is one of the first 100 44 Magnums made.

Bill

Great info but this gun has no dash after the 27. Are you saying this should be referred to as a 27-2 or did you mistype? Thanks

A typo on my part (corrected).

Bill

Ok thanks I was about to become more confused

You can tell the thread direction w/o unscrewing the extractor rod.

If it has a narrow band cut at the rear end of the knurling, it's left hand threads (may also have an L on the face of the cyl) and the gun is really a 27-1 with a stamping error.

If no band, it's right hand thread and just a late shipper as some have posted above.

Showing the band cut at rear of knurled rod tip:

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Not sure why you assumed a 1959 date. I have S199xxx (see your other post for full number) that letters as 5/19/60.

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No life story has happy end.

Lettered dates are shipping dates. 1959 is its likely production date, but could also be very ear'y 1960. Usually quite different than a shipping date, but sometimes the two can be close.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Just going by the date range in the catalog and the fact it has all of the things that were supposedly changed in 1960. Didn’t realize 1960 didn’t mean 1960. A 1960 ship date makes sense it’s the 1962 date that seemed odd.

I’ll confirm the extractor rod part when I get home.

I’m more interested in when it was made than when it was shipped.

As others have stated your gun might have been lost in the vault,
I have a 27 no dash serial S209xxx that shipped in 1960.

Just a heads up the channel cut behind the knurled end identifying L hand thread ejector rods appears to have been eliminated sometime around 1980 (ish).
Just wanted to mention this to avoid any parts bin confusion .

It does thread right. I’ll post a few pics in a bit.

Ok, there you go, just a late shipper! Another case of "first in the vault, last out".

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The historian, Roy Jinks, has the shipping records. He does not have the manufacturing data.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I realize that I just wish that was something that got recorded because to me that's more important than when it shipped.

Thanks for all if the replies I learned a lot. Here are a few pictures to go with the thread. The rod doesn't have the band cut as mentioned, and it is righty tighty.

I see that the SCSW mentions: "Early no dash 4-screw: About double (value). I guess this is considered a 4-screw with the cylinder stop screw?

15 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr

3 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr

12 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr

14 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr

40 by Paul Dubois, on Flickr
Got a period correct set of diamond magnas in the mail

I think it's more important as well. But the features of the gun pretty much tell us the production period, albeit not the exact date. They do not help much with the shipping date.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The diamond Target grips will do the gun justice. And since the target grips aren't serial numbered 99% of the time, no worries.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

"I’m more interested in when it was made than when it was shipped."

You are doomed to disappointment...

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No life story has happy end.

I think I know what happened:
“Hey Bob, I found a 3 year old gun in the vault that doesn’t have any of the new features. What should I do with it? Ship it to Canada they won’t know the difference”

S&W kept track of their production by the factory designation for a particular firearm. In the case of the ".357" Magnum, it is NT-357. So, on a given day, S&W completed x number of NT-357 firearms. The company did not list the serial number, finish, or barrel length.

S&W was still shipping revolvers with a 4-screw frame and extractor rod with a right-hand in 1962, so your 27 would not have been considered a gun with "old features" in April of that year.

Bill

It has been many moons but if I recall my Accounting 101....... FILO vs FIFO


First in Last out

First in First out


or....maybe just..................


"Hey Joe; Grab me a XXXX will you,got a order to ship !""

For reference, this 27 (no dash), SN S220679 shipped in January 1962.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

I would have love to have taken a stroll through the S&W vault in say 1960. A shelf full of model 27s, move them around and see whats in the back bottom of that shelf. Now lets go look where they keep the model 25 stuff, then the model 16s.

I find myself drawn to 45s and 32s is that strange or what.

I recall one time Roy relating a Mod 39 that was shipped 13 years after it was made. Who knows where it may have fallen down behind a shelf or what.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

A bit off point...... back in 1988 a local Gunsmith in the Harrisburg Pa area said he could get me a 3" 66 at a good price as they had been sitting on the shelf for over a year....... chopped revolvers (mostly N-frame .44s and .45s) had been a hot item in the gun rags a couple years before as the "ultimate" concealed carry guns.... S&W IMO brought out an even better option w/ a 3" 66....... then over night a Wonder-9 with 15 rounds of 9mm up their butts was all anybody wanted....

same thing with the 686/586..... Smith finally IMO produced the perfect .357 police revolver ...... only to have that market dry up; again in favor of the new Wonder 9s. ......... reason it's hard to find a 581/681 today.

It's impossible to tell when it was made. A casting coming from the forge in not given a serial number. They are assigned when the finished parts are in Final Fitting.

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Don Mundell

Not looking for an exact date just trying to narrow it down to a year which I think we’ve done.