Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2018, 06:17 PM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 93
Likes: 44
Liked 456 Times in 64 Posts
Default New old iron - range report

Since it was such a nice cool morning and I had new guns and new bullets to try out, I headed out to the range to turn some money into noise.

Beautiful day



I took a wide assortment of stuff with me to try out: the new (to me) 38/44 and 4" 1950 with the wonky sight, my other 2 1950's, a 14-3, a 15-1, and a 25-2. The K frames and the other 1950's were there for ammo tests, and the 25-2 came along to continue my never ending quest to find a load that doesn't hit 3 inches to the left.

Ammo for the .38's was reloads using 3.5 grains of Bullseye and Missouri Bullet Company "target .38" 158 grain lead semi wadcutters with a Brinell hardness of 12. I've used hard bullets since I started reloading and I was curious to see if a softer compound would make any difference.

The .44's were all reloads of 6.6 grains of Unique and a Missouri Bullet Company "#3 cowboy" 240 grain lead truncated cone, also with a Brinell hardness of 12. The first batch of bullets that I tried from MBC were the .44 Elmer-K 240 grain lead semi-wadcutters at a Brinell hardness of 18. These left just a tiny bit of lead in the barrels, so the #3 Cowboy bullets were also an attempt to get rid of the leftover lead.

The 25-2 has been giving me fits with my normal .45 acp load of 4.7 grains WST under a 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter. Even with the rear sight maxed out to the right, this gun always hits in the 8 ring at 9 o'clock.....even from a bench rest. I brought along some mouse fart loads of 3.5 grains of Bullseye with the same 200 grain lswc to see if slowing things down would help. As I was packing I found 2 Hornady 185 grain XTP hollowpoint loads that were left over from a previous test with my Kimber, so I tossed them into the bag as well. These 2 shells were the only factory loads of the day.

The 38/44 was in the first case I unpacked, so it seemed like a good place to start. Since I had no idea what the POI would be, I set the target at 15 yards and rested my wrists on a sandbag for the first group. The itty bitty fixed sights are better than the ones on my Chiefs Special, but not by a whole lot. I was pleasantly surprised when the first shot plunked into the dead center of the bullseye.

Here's what it gave me for the first 10 shots:


Standing up on my own two feet opened the group up a bit...


I guess it can stay.

I've been planning on hotrodding this one with duplicates of the original 38/44 HD loads, but it is such a joy and shoots so well with the light loads that I think I'll just leave well enough alone. I have plenty of .357 Loudenboomer's for when I want more snap.

Next up was the new .44 special 1950 with the wonky front sight. Starting again from the bench, the first few shots went low. Bringing the rear sight up 4 clicks gave me this:



10 shots standing using a modified Weaver stance resulted in this group. And yes, I may have yanked the trigger just a bit on one shot:



The truncated cone .44 bullets actually leave a smaller hole in the target than the .38 semi-wadcutters.

Even though it shoots well, this one needs a bit of work. I experienced 3 distinctly different single action trigger pull weights during this string of 10 shots, so either there is 65 years of gunk built up inside or it needs some new springs and a fluff and buff. I'll drop it off with Nelson Ford and have him work his magic.

The other issue I had was with the Magna grips. I had no problems with the .38/44 and the target .38 loads, but the .44 special would shift in my hand with every shot. I'll betcha Mr. Culina can help me with that.....

The point of impact seems just fine and the rear sight is well centered. Whoever did the work on the wonky front sight wasn't much for aesthetics but did fine in terms of height and placement. Replacing the sight has moved down on the priority list now.

Moving along to the other two .44 specials, I fired a 10 shot group from each with the Cowboy bullets. This was a bullet test and not a "me" test, so the sandbag was used again. Both guns seem to like the soft compound:





Looks like I need to bring the sights on the 6.5" gun down just a bit.

The K-frames ate up the soft compound bullets just as well as the 38/44 did. I was starting to get hot and hungry so I didn't bother with pics.

The 25-2 came out last and went back on the sandbag for more testing. The mouse fart 200 grain lswc loads printed 3" left and 2" high, so no joy there. Just before I packed up I snapped the two Hornady 185 grain hollowpoints into a moon clip just for giggles.

They hit 1" low and 2" to the right in a nice figure 8. Maybe, just maybe, I can get that rear sight off the right side stop and still hit in the black. Time to hit the bench and cook up a variety of 185 grain jacketed loads.

These last two shots actually made my day because they implied that the 25-2 wasn't actually a boat anchor.

One question remained: The soft bullets worked well on paper, but did they leave a bunch of gunk behind in the barrels? Yes and no.

The barrels on all 3 of the .38's looked great. Just the usual Bullseye powder residue.

The .44's were a different story. Big streaks of nasty inside every barrel. It came out easily enough, but there was more leading from the soft bullets than I was getting from the hard ones. The load I use is in the 15k psi range, so the conventional wisdom says that the Brinell 12 bullets should be the hot ticket. In my guns, on this day, with my loads they were not.

Here's the lead that came out with a brass brush. This is after 65 shots through 3 barrels. The wonky-sight gun was shot the most and also had the most buildup, but the other 2 had significant amounts of leading after just the 10 shots that were fired from each. Other people may not think this is a lot, but I do.



To be a fair test I need to run the same amount of shots through the same 3 guns using the Brinell 18 Elmer K bullets and see what is left behind in the barrels.

Oh darn. That means I have to go to the range again.

Last edited by Shotguncoach; 07-07-2018 at 06:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-2018, 06:46 PM
bulletslap bulletslap is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 333
Likes: 230
Liked 541 Times in 192 Posts
Default

A great write up with excellent photos !
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 07-07-2018, 11:01 PM
S&W ucla's Avatar
S&W ucla S&W ucla is online now
SWCA Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: upper corner lower alabam
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 0
Liked 2,804 Times in 872 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=Shotguncoach;140092833]headed out to the range to turn some money into noise. [QUOTE]

That's one I'll have to remember
Looks like a great day to me!! Nice chootin' too!!
__________________
PTLAPTA!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 07-08-2018, 08:15 AM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 9,014
Likes: 38
Liked 9,098 Times in 2,327 Posts
Default

The 4" 1950 44 Target is the one I always wanted and will never have. And you have TWO of them. I hate you.
__________________
Life is short. Art is long.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 07-08-2018, 09:54 AM
Targets Guy's Avatar
Targets Guy Targets Guy is offline
US Veteran
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwest Iowa
Posts: 7,705
Likes: 1,530
Liked 12,077 Times in 3,662 Posts
Default

Super range report. Thanks.
__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 07-08-2018, 10:20 AM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 93
Likes: 44
Liked 456 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Doc View Post
The 4" 1950 44 Target is the one I always wanted and will never have. And you have TWO of them. I hate you.
Don't say 'never'.....I looked for years for a 4" 1950 that I could afford before I found the first one. The second one just kinda fell into my lap through being in the right place at the right time.

The same goes for the 4" 624 and the 4" 3rd Model Hand Ejector.

Oh wait. That may not have helped.

In all seriousness, the "magic of the internet" is how it all happened. They're out there. It just takes some detective work.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 07-08-2018, 04:55 PM
bondjamesbond bondjamesbond is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: desert
Posts: 23
Likes: 2
Liked 64 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Did you shoot at Ben Avery?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 07-08-2018, 07:05 PM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 93
Likes: 44
Liked 456 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Yep, Ben Avery. I'm just about half way in between Ben Avery and Joe Foss, but Ben Avery has a hot dog guy.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 07-08-2018, 10:28 PM
vonn's Avatar
vonn vonn is online now
US Veteran
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: houston,texas
Posts: 5,791
Likes: 90,459
Liked 19,380 Times in 4,603 Posts
Default

Thanks. Enjoyed your reporting.
__________________
Hue 68 noli me tangere
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-08-2018, 11:14 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,128
Likes: 17,587
Liked 10,808 Times in 5,234 Posts
Default

I wish more range reports posted here were as good as yours. Superb photos and clear text with correct spelling, by a man who can actually shoot!

I'd shoot the 6.5 inch .44 at longer ranges. Your bullet may hit just right further out. I'd want that gun to shoot Keith 250 grain bullets at about 900 FPS. Not just a target gun...

Last edited by Texas Star; 07-08-2018 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 07-09-2018, 12:10 AM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 93
Likes: 44
Liked 456 Times in 64 Posts
Default

According to my notes, the load I was shooting produced an average of 845 fps from the 4" guns and 879 from the 6.5". Std dev was 17 out of the shorter barrels and 12 from the longer.

I haven't chrono'd anything heavier out of the 6.5" gun yet. The Skeeter load through my 4" 624 pulled an average of 962 fps with an sd of 15. In my chrono workup for the 624 the most consistent load was 7.0 grains of Unique (.1 grain over current Alliant published max...use at your own risk). That one gave an average velocity of 910 and an sd of 8. I'll run some of those through the longer barrel and report back.

The 624 didn't make this trip. It's getting the SuperSmith treatment from Nelson Ford right now.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 07-09-2018, 02:16 AM
gr8 gr8 is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 28
Likes: 122
Liked 31 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Op, thanks. I am with Texas Star. Wonderful photos with a good deal of information.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 07-09-2018, 02:32 AM
Kurusu's Avatar
Kurusu Kurusu is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 9,662
Liked 3,660 Times in 1,209 Posts
Default

Good report. Thank you.
__________________
Non omnia possumus omnes
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:01 AM
S&WsRsweet S&WsRsweet is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: TTown Alabama ,Roll Tide
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 4,690
Liked 1,274 Times in 679 Posts
Default

Now that is a range report! Some pretty good shooting and some nice guns on a pleasant sunny day who could ask for more. 106 degrees but at least it is a dry heat they say it's the humidity that gets ya right.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 07-09-2018, 12:06 PM
992B 992B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 1,369
Liked 114 Times in 44 Posts
Default

Great report!! Try kicking the 44 load to 7.0 of Unique. That load behind about any 240 grain bullet and sparked by a Remington large pistol primer will be accurate and powerful enough for deer at 50 yards, and you can shoot it all day. Gary
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-09-2018, 04:30 PM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 9,014
Likes: 38
Liked 9,098 Times in 2,327 Posts
Default

At this point in my life I am selling guns, not buying more.
__________________
Life is short. Art is long.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-15-2018, 12:40 AM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 93
Likes: 44
Liked 456 Times in 64 Posts
Default

It looks like my magna grip issue is going to be solved. I've been trading emails with Jennifer at Culina Grips (nice lady!) and a set of smooth cocobolo targets are in the works......along with a couple of other fun things.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 07-15-2018, 01:18 AM
les.b's Avatar
les.b les.b is online now
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 4,164
Likes: 64,582
Liked 15,088 Times in 3,400 Posts
Default

Great report!! Thanks for the write-up, those numbers and loads and bullet combos are really useful. I am always collecting data to add to my own notes and standard manual recommendations.

Best Regards, Les
__________________
SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-15-2018, 11:11 PM
ABPOS ABPOS is online now
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 793
Likes: 866
Liked 911 Times in 355 Posts
Default

That is some beautiful shooting of beautiful guns.

What did you use to get the lead out?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:58 AM
Shotguncoach Shotguncoach is offline
Member
New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Arizona
Posts: 93
Likes: 44
Liked 456 Times in 64 Posts
Default

The lead came out pretty easily with a brass brush and some Hoppe's.....it was just more than I wanted to see.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 07-18-2018, 03:54 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
New old iron - range report  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 3,723
Liked 10,673 Times in 4,299 Posts
Default

Surprised your Bullets didn't melt before you even loaded them at those temperatures! LOL!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old iron range day Shotguncoach S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 12 06-04-2018 10:58 PM
Disappointing K22 range report/UPDATE-range report Old Corp S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 27 02-15-2016 12:56 PM
Range Report A.R.M.S Flip Up Iron Sights rjbFL Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles 1 03-29-2014 08:28 PM
Range report. 1949 Winchester MDL 70 .257 Roberts with iron sights and diopter. bushmaster1313 Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 7 10-09-2012 08:42 PM
Range Report: 2 Pre-64 Mdl 70's; Iron Sights; 55 year old eyes bushmaster1313 Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 13 11-09-2011 09:29 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)