Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:32 PM
PuertoRican PuertoRican is offline
Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 283
Likes: 82
Liked 83 Times in 32 Posts
Default 1899 .32-20 question

When cocking this old girl in single action, the cylinder doesn't always line up with the barrel. Cylinder needs to be turned by hand very slightly to line up. Doesn't do it all the time and doesn't do it in double action. Is this fixable and can a relative dumb *** do it?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:25 AM
series guy series guy is offline
Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Steel City
Posts: 691
Likes: 1,187
Liked 1,157 Times in 355 Posts
Default

First thing to do is to take apart the yoke/ejector rod/center pin/cylinder and clean everything thoroughly. this is a prime area for dirt and gummed up lube to accumulate. If that doesn't help then if the problem is slight and only on a few chambers the ratchets can be peined. If the problem is more drastic than an oversize hand would need to be fit to the gun.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:11 AM
merl67 merl67 is offline
Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern Middle Tennessee
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 1,190
Liked 1,084 Times in 443 Posts
Default

As series guy has said if it is slight peening will help, also as he said make sure crud is not interfering with with lockup make sure the gun has been cleaned and properly lubed then recheck timing. I would like to see pictures as this is a under appreciated model.
__________________
Randy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:58 AM
PuertoRican PuertoRican is offline
Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 283
Likes: 82
Liked 83 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merl67 View Post
As series guy has said if it is slight peening will help, also as he said make sure crud is not interfering with with lockup make sure the gun has been cleaned and properly lubed then recheck timing. I would like to see pictures as this is a under appreciated model.
Here she is.
Attached Thumbnails
1899 .32-20 question-32-20-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:04 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is online now
SWCA Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 12,647
Likes: 3,761
Liked 8,925 Times in 4,019 Posts
Default

You can fix it, no need for a gunsmith. This is not a real common problem but you described precisely what we see enough to know how to fix it to last the rest of the life of the revolver. It took a log time to became an issue.

SUMMARY:

When the cylinder is a few thousandths short of advancing completely to lock up, known as "carry up", just do the following:

With the cylinder open in a vertical position, use a flat tipped punch to very gently peen each of the 6 ratchet teeth on the rear surface of the edge contacted by the hand. One tap on each tooth will usually do it and the gun will function perfectly for another 20+ years. I've fixed so many that way I can't count them.


DETAILED CARRY UP REPAIR:

The issue is called a lack of "Carry Up". In other words the hand does not carry the cyl far enough to lock up within the normal cycle distance of the hammer travel. Usually doesn't show up in DA because of the momentum of the faster cyl rotation.

Frankly, based on your assessment and comments, I believe Pat Sweeney's "Gunsmithing Pistols & Revolvers", 2nd Ed.(2004), pp.219-220 is the most sensible, a perfectly good solution, what I would do, what I have done many times, what S&W factory trained smiths have done in similar situations, and also what members on this forum have done successfully after reading this, which is:

Peening the ratchet tooth (or teeth) to correct timing/cyl ‘carry up’ is so simple, but you're the only one to decide if you can manage it.

Replacing and fitting a new hand may fix your problem and may not, but the hand is not likely needed or at fault. It’s the harder part compared to the cyl.

The flat surfaces of the teeth facing you when looking at the rear face of the cyl are where to peen. The tooth at about 3 o'clock is the next to be engaged by the hand (when cyl is closed) to advance the chamber to the right of the one at 12 o’clock, into firing position. The cylinder turns counterclockwise so the hand will engage the 'bottom side' of that tooth. The flat surface facing you is where to peen, on the edge right above the bottom side of the tooth. No need to take the gun apart at all. I lay the gun on a padded surface on its right side, muzzle pointing to the left (I’m right handed) with cyl propped open with a rolled up shop cloth.

If you're worried about force to the yoke and frame, I'm afraid that you're envisioning TOO HARD of a tap. Just a very light peen with a small hammer and punch is all that's needed. The ratchet teeth are not hardened! This takes finesse, not force.

And by laying the gun on a padded surface without restraint as I described, it's allowed to move when the punch is tapped with the hammer mitigating any force to the yoke and frame.


You may not even see the metal deform and it can be enough to solve the problem. One light tap with a small light hammer and flat face punch then close the cylinder and try it. If the cylinder doesn't ‘carry up’ or even if it does C/U but still has too much 'looseness' when fully cocked, give the tooth another tap. You can do all six teeth, or just others where there's looseness with the chamber in firing position when the hammer is cocked. Rough handling/constant double action rapid fire can accelerate the teeth wear but it did not happen overnight, and now you have another 20+ years of shooting before it'll need anything more, depending of course on how much you shoot the gun. If you peen too much and the cylinder carries up too far that puts cocking the hammer in a bind or the bolt 'jumps' out of the cyl notch, not a problem, peen the surface that the hand contacts and push it back.

Also for side-to-side cylinder play, make sure the edges of the cylinder notches are not burred out or the cyl bolt can pop out of the notch. Gentle peening of the notch edges can fix that as well. “Tight lock up” is fine, but can be over emphasized. Recognize the cyl needs some play for the bullet to align the chamber to the forcing cone.

If you have a new hand and are comfortable fitting it, that's fine. But I would not spend money on new parts, because one can easily handle doing this very minor repair.

The hand is made of harder steel than the teeth since it has six times the contacts of each tooth, and lack of proper carry up is a typical result after many rounds of shooting. That's why I would not install a new hand, it already has the advantage.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 07-12-2018 at 06:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:30 AM
Jtown's Avatar
Jtown Jtown is offline
SWCA Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 108
Likes: 598
Liked 73 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Hondo44 good instructions, I will remember them for future use.
Walt
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:46 PM
PuertoRican PuertoRican is offline
Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 283
Likes: 82
Liked 83 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Something I didn't mention. Single action cocking is very difficult. It takes a lot of thumb pressure to pull the hammer all the way back. A lot more than any other piece I have.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:43 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is online now
SWCA Member
1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question 1899 .32-20 question  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 12,647
Likes: 3,761
Liked 8,925 Times in 4,019 Posts
Default

Be sure the tension screw for the mainspring in the bottom of the front grip frame strap is screwed all the way in.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1899 question Bobbysixkiller S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 20 01-31-2018 10:31 PM
1st Model of 1899 Question dawggunner S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 9 11-06-2015 08:47 PM
Question about .38 1899 revolver Oddman S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 12 06-20-2015 08:38 PM
New guy with an 1899 question. MK75 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 8 02-26-2014 10:59 PM
Army S&W 1899 Question NORWICH CADET S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 5 08-03-2008 10:14 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)