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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 07-15-2018, 09:50 AM
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A friend approached me about an S&W he has had for quite a while and has very little info about it. I took some pictures and provided him with as much info as my limited resources could provide. looking for help from the experts here on the Forum.

1. 5 screw, hand ejector
2.Ser. # 33309 (1929) ?
3. Cal. Barrel stamped .45, but it appears that another 5 has been removed. .455?
4. this stamping is followed by what appears to be several proof marks of British origin.
5. Screw hole in butt for swivel
6.Very small stamping on receiver that says "NOT ENGLISH MADE"

Hope all this helps. He says he has fired .45acp with moon clips from this gun.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:59 AM
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Its a 455 hand ejector Mk II made for the British for WWI which has been converted to 45 ACP as many of them were. I have one a few thousand serial numbers earlier; likely made in 1916. There is a thread here on them (several actually), maybe try the search button at the top of the page although mine hasn't been working for awhile. Here's mine, which hasn't been converted, and at some point, probably WWII, saw service in Australia.

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Old 07-15-2018, 10:00 AM
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It's a .455 Hand Ejector made for Great Britain in WWI. .455 Eley, but many were converted to .45 ACP or .45 Colt when they were brought back to the USA
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:45 AM
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It is a .455 Mk II Hand Ejector, 2nd Model which probably shipped in the late 1915-early 1916 period. Generally these were converted (probably long after WWI) to .45 ACP by shaving the rear face of the cylinder to provide adequate headspace for the .45 ACP cartridge in a moon clip. If you cannot see a SN stamped on the rear face of the cylinder, that's what happened. While interesting guns, conversion lowers their collector value significantly.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:32 AM
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I believe the stamping reads "NOT ENGLISH MAKE". You might want to tell your friend that this revolver was not heat treated when it was built and that the pressures of a .45 ACP are in the proof level of the original cartridge, the .455.

When the US entered WWI, the military did not have enough .45 automatics to arm the troops, so S&W and Colt chambered their large frame revolvers for the .45 ACP, using the half moon clips for extraction of fired rounds. The US Gov't required S&W to heat treat their 1917s.

I would advise him to either shoot light loaded .45 ACPs or to find some standard pressure .45 Auto Rim.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:46 AM
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The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.

ref: Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smaller faster bullets are much more destructive to targets. That's why the 556/.22 caliber round is used by our military to kill people. The resistance of soft tissue causes them to shatter, spin and bounce around in side the body cavity when they hit it.

Last edited by Retired Cop; 07-15-2018 at 11:47 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:52 AM
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Dewalt, there is no Ser. # on the face of the cylinder.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:02 PM
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I don't quite agree the 45 is "slow and useless as a sidearm". I think nearly everyone recognizes the 1911 (45 acp) was (and still is) the preferred self defense caliber in a handgun. The fact that he 1911 was the military sidearm of the US for about 70 years, (and select branch's still demand it) tells us it is a very capable sidearm.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retnavyshooter View Post
Dewalt, there is no Ser. # on the face of the cylinder.
That means the SN was removed by machining when the cylinder was shaved. There were other British .455 revolvers such as the Webley Mks IV, V, and VI, given similar treatments, which is a shame. Most of the time these revolvers were modified in the USA by various companies and individuals so that more readily-available .45 ACP ammunition could be used in them. Colt also made a revolver (the Colt New Service) in .455 similar to the S&W.

As mentioned above, the S&W .455 was never meant to fire .45 ACP, as it operates at somewhat higher chamber pressure. However, I have not heard of any of the converted S&Ws being damaged by firing .45 ACP. If I had a converted .455 revolver and wanted to use it, I would probably make up some light .45 ACP reloads using lead bullets rather than firing factory ammunition.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.

ref: Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smaller faster bullets are much more destructive to targets. That's why the 556/.22 caliber round is used by our military to kill people. The resistance of soft tissue causes them to shatter, spin and bounce around in side the body cavity when they hit it.
Years ago, when I was in high school Army JROTC, a grizzled old combat veteran master sergeant introduced us cadets to the characteristics of the M1911A1 pistol. With respect to its effectiveness, he explained it this way:

"Some think a big heavy slow-moving bullet is not effective. WRONG. Try this as an experiment. The next time you are in a bank, try hitting the open bank vault door with your fist to move it. What you will end up with is a broken fist. Now - place your palm against the door, and press against it slowly. Guess what? It MOVES. Same deal with the slow-moving heavy .45 bullet."

I would never argue with a combat veteran who survived both WWII and Korea. He'd definitely "seen the elephant."

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Old 07-15-2018, 01:28 PM
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Have to agree with H Richard even thought I CCW a 9mm if I absolutely knew I was going to be in a gunfight I'd be packin' one of my .45s or .44s here's a example of one of my .45 225gr 900fps reloads that expanded to nearly a full inch in water jugs. I can assure you won't go far if hit with one of these.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.

ref: Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smaller faster bullets are much more destructive to targets. That's why the 556/.22 caliber round is used by our military to kill people. The resistance of soft tissue causes them to shatter, spin and bounce around in side the body cavity when they hit it.
...there are two ways to increase power in a firearm...

...bullet weight and bullet speed...

...if you are limited in speed...due to barrel length or propellant type...

...then you increase bullet weight to achieve the desired muzzle energy...
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:25 PM
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Thanks everyone; have passed all of your input and info to my friend.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.

ref: Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smaller faster bullets are much more destructive to targets. That's why the 556/.22 caliber round is used by our military to kill people. The resistance of soft tissue causes them to shatter, spin and bounce around in side the body cavity when they hit it.
I presume you have never talked to anyone hit by a .45. Its a little hard to do, since most of them aren't talking anymore. Wikipedia is a good place to visit, but don't presume its never wrong.
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:51 PM
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"The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm."

That was proven in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and even today.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.

ref: Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smaller faster bullets are much more destructive to targets. That's why the 556/.22 caliber round is used by our military to kill people. The resistance of soft tissue causes them to shatter, spin and bounce around in side the body cavity when they hit it.
??????????????????????????
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.

ref: Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smaller faster bullets are much more destructive to targets. That's why the 556/.22 caliber round is used by our military to kill people. The resistance of soft tissue causes them to shatter, spin and bounce around in side the body cavity when they hit it.
Well, that's interesting. So if smaller is better how come everyone isn't carrying a handgun in .22 magnum with a .40gr projectile?
The military never has been overly fond of the 5.56 round. In Mogandishu the skinnies had the annoying habit of getting up after they were shot. Those types of things don't happen with a .30 cal rifle round. The military 9mm hand gun has had it's short comings as well. I've talked to vets that served in the middle east that would have preferred the old 1911, they didn't like the bad guys getting back up after they were put down.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
"The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm."
This is very true. Without a gun to fire it in, you would have to throw it at someone.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:16 AM
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I presume you have never talked to anyone hit by a .45. Its a little hard to do, since most of them aren't talking anymore. Wikipedia is a good place to visit, but don't presume its never wrong.
... who had three scars in his chess with the tattoo, ".45s Ain't ****". It's interesting to note that even though it took years, the wounds eventually killed him.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:46 AM
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This is very true. Without a gun to fire it in, you would have to throw it at someone.
NOW I understand the comment about the .45 bullet being useless. It took me a while. Some days I'm a bit slow.
Even so, if I was throwing them at people, I'd prefer the .45 ACP over the 9X19......
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:23 AM
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Talking OH NO YOU DIIN'T.

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The .45 caliber bullet is slow and useless as a sidearm. Our Military realized it's short comings way back in the European wars.
Rattle that 1911 fanboy cage at your own peril.
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