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Old 07-25-2018, 07:43 PM
HughD1 HughD1 is offline
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Default Two Model of 1899s

I have been on vacation in North Georgia for the last week. My patient wife has allowed me to visit most every gun shop we have passed by. In the last two days I have run across two separate model of 1899. The first was across the border in NC. It appeared to be a 32-20. Unfortunately it had been refinished poorly in nickel. No markings were left on the barrel. Only the S&W and the serial number could be seen. It had mechanical issues too. The cylinder would turn with with the hammer down. It would lock up if you pulled the hammer back.
The second was in North Georgia. It had no finish whatsoever. It was also missing the LERK. The grips looked like someone had carved them with a pocketknife. It appeared to have military markings on it. It had a lanyard on the butt. I could see 38 on it but could not discern the rest of the writing. It had some sort of markings behind the hammer. The first gun was marked $199 . The second was marked an astonishing $499. I would like to have a Model of 1899 to go with my Grandfatherís Model of 1902 but these two specimens were well past my ability to bring them back to life.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:59 PM
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$499? Must be an optimistic pirate.
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:04 PM
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Condition is hard to evaluate from verbal descriptions, but the second gun sounds like it may have been one of the very limited number of specimen in military configuration delivered to the Army and Navy. These are very desirable, although I cannot judge whether condition and price in case of the gun you describe are in any way appropriate.

By the way, LERK is not a term associated with this early model. A missing ejector rod knob is very common on the Model 1899 and the Model 1896, both of which have unprotected rod tips.

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Old 07-26-2018, 05:59 AM
HughD1 HughD1 is offline
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Gun was far more of a project than I am capable of. Someone had taken it down to bare metal. I pulled the hammer back and gun seemed to function. Looked like a money pit to my untrained eye. My phone would not open the private message.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
Condition is hard to evaluate from verbal descriptions, but the second gun sounds like it may have been one of the very limited number of specimen in military configuration delivered to the Army and Navy. These are very desirable, although I cannot judge whether condition and price in case of the gun you describe are in any way appropriate.

By the way, LERK is not a term associated with this early model. A missing ejector rod knob is very common on the Model 1899 and the Model 1896, both of which have unprotected rod tips.
I am just chiming in here but I agree with Absalom in that $ 5 Benjamins might not be out of line if the second one is one of the 1000 made for the US Army (Serial numbered 13001 to 14000 IIRC). Mine pictured below (bad pics I know) is s/n 13030 and it has all correct marks, stamps, components and is currently the lowest s/n Army Model 1899 on the Forum data base.

Interesting feature is that the left grip panel has the "old scroll" numbers "22" engraved or ?? into the heel. For the life of me I cannot seem to get anywhere with research as to the meaning of the 22 (Unit, rack no, test no...???). I know a Letter and SWHF info will maybe help....just got to find the funds for the Letter.

Anyway......for the OP an in-person looksee or real top quality pics of that second one would be a must even to guestimate about $500...but I can tell you mine was not that cheap, nor will it leave the stable anywhere near that price.
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:17 PM
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BTW, the "JTT" mark is for John T Thompson of Tommy gun fame.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:17 PM
policerevolvercollector policerevolvercollector is offline
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Thanks for the info!! I'm taking the U.S Army 1899. We are working a trade deal. It is ROUGH. But, it is also 1 of 1000!
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:35 AM
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hello 44special and forum;

Please let us know the serial number once you get your hands on that Army 1899. It should be between 13001 and 14000 and specimen s/n 14000 was on the auction block about 10 years ago, in decent shape/condition and knocked down for around $1600 IIRC.
Your pics show the KSM (Kelly S. Morse) who was the other inspector for the government along with JTT, so the frame appears correct. The barrel looks original and correct with no flare where the pinned barrel meets the frame, and the markings should read 38 S&W MIL which was the "new" at the time (1900), smokeless cartridge that replaced BP. The cartridge was also known as 38 Long Colt, but I can sympathize with S&W not wanting to advertise their competitor.

The only concern I would have is the one pic of the gun with the muzzle pointing right, appears to show a significant black straight line crack on the cylinder at chamber end. This may just be a photo effect of lighting or ??.

Anyway...I think we would all love to know the serial number when you get that treasure home.
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:55 AM
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In the interests of correctness, my above post is wrong with regard to barrel stamping. I checked my 1899 Army and the actual left side marking is " S & W 38 MIL " with a squiggly marking at either end and the stamp is very close to the barrel/frame joint.

Additionally, the serial number appears on the forestrap, just above the strain screw, again on the face of the cylinder, and on the barrel flat, visible when cylinder is swung out. Interesting is that the inspector initials KSM are also on the barrel flat, the cylinder face and both barrel and cylinder have a stamped "P" proof mark.

Apologies for the wrong info previously.
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:35 AM
Thuer Thuer is offline
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I am very happy to own a Militairy model 1899. I do have even the period holster for it. A very competent gunsmith has made a new ejectorrodknob for it. Condition is great. number is 13848
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:11 PM
HughD1 HughD1 is offline
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Good luck with it brother. It needs a good home and a lot of love. Hopefully that set of stocks is the only homemade engineering on it. How difficult is it to find parts for one this old?
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:21 PM
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I had one several years back, sold it wish I didn't. Serial #136xx.
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Old 08-04-2018, 07:36 AM
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Thuer;
That is a very interesting period holster for the Army Model 1899. My question for you if you have any research, or for the other holster experts is that your holster could be worn on right side with butt forward, for left hand cross draw if mounted cavalry OR I suppose it could be worn with butt rearward on left side.

Anyone know what would have been correct for military uniform wear with revolvers prior to WW I?

Would be definitely cool to find an old photograph or book depicting same.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:27 AM
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Right side but forward. Or leftside left hand, Remeber. They used sabels at that time in the right hand.

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Old 08-04-2018, 10:39 AM
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Thuer is correct. Though, post War of Northern Aggression, while cavalry sabers were issued, many troopers depended more on their carbines and their revolvers. The "cavalry draw", using the right side butt forward holster, required a soldier to undo the flap, then twist his right hand palm outward, grasp the revolver and draw, hopefully without cocking the sidearm and shooting one's self in the side.
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