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Old 07-26-2018, 07:22 PM
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Default Found a PRE-16- Ransom rest results

At the Berea Show 2 weekends ago one of the table holders was asking questions abt a Pre-16 he had at home. Said it was a 50% gun and didn't know where to price it. He would bring it to the next show a month from now but would let me see it first. Gimme your phone number and lets meet so i can see it, wouldn't be back on Sunday so a meeting is my only shot before it disappears. this was July 14th. His son sent me pics the next Saturday July 21.

Tuesday July 24 we finally met. His 50% I stayed with. Its hard to judge a gun after 85% or so. I knew it had a rust area on the right lower bbl and now the cyl has an area where it must have laid for a while. Said he wanted a 1000.00 but the cyl rust was something he didn't mention. The gun was fired very little and the TIMING was factory new. The Cylinder chambers and the Rifling were shiny and bright. In the pics by the "32 long cal" is just spotting, not rust. The frame was not bad and the cylinder had one bad area. Under the grips that number to the gun, the frame was perfect. I could wait to see if he would lower it at the next show but may never see the gun again.

This is a great shooter even with the rust. The rust is Not Real Deep. Decisions. I offered 800.00, said no, I paused said 900.00 and took the gun home. Don't know if i did OK, its an early rare gun. Will find out the ship date soon. Will post pics as this keeps bouncing. To buy an original model 16 at 85-90% would probably be 2500.00. Re-blued, this would be a nice piece. Larry

Having computer trouble with pics
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:31 PM
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Congratulations! I think you got a great deal. It's unfortunate that Smith & Wesson won't work on that gun or refinish it. I have a model marked model 16 that they refuse to work on. It cost me more than yours and mine is, in my opinion, worst on corrosion.

Guy
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:32 PM
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Very nice rescue, Larry. It has found a good home!
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:08 PM
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Larry, your pre-16th is significantly better than a Model 16 that recently sold on GB that came out of Maine (my apologies to the forum member who bought it if I offend you)¡

Your K32 is a definite shooter. If you refinish it, only you will remember how it looked. With the target loads it was designed for, it will make you proud.

Enjoy your K32!
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:18 PM
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Way to one up me, Larry. I finally get quasi-K-32, and you get a real one! I am pleased for you, though since I know how much you will appreciate it. We’ll have to swap some reloading recipes for the little 32 S&W Longs. Are you going to do a full resto on yours or leave it as is? Nothing in between would do!

Froggie
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:30 PM
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I agree with Guy.
What a great piece for a factory re-finish. Have you considered getting it re-done?

Nice snag Larry. You can shoot the snot out of it and not worry. I’m kinda jealous.

Bob
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:53 PM
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Want to display it at the NE Ohio Bunch on Oct 6th so everyone can see what it looks like now. Any ideas who does a classy re-blue, Fords has a great reputation. Fords is 4 months behind and the Bunch is in 2 months. Would rather send it after the bunch so it will be back for the spring Bunch. Gonna shoot it Tuesday morning at the Old Guy weekly shoot. The gun is in the 68500 ser no range. Will give
a range report. Gonna try some more pics, restarted the computer. Looks like the pics are good to go. Larry

Is it worth 900.00??
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:47 PM
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You did just fine with this purchase. These are few and far between and will never be made again, at least as they were back then. You could just keep it as is and enjoy shooting it, knowing you have a revolver that a lot of other people would love to have. The majority of forum members probably have not ever seen one of these up close.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:56 PM
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I have to say that I would have paid that for it. Nice gun!
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:04 PM
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I would try some clean up before you re-blue it. These guys know better than me if a re-blue would increase or decrease value. you have a great gun. My k-32 is not perfect either but shoots like a dream.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:46 PM
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Nice find Larry, any pre-16 is a treasure!

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Old 07-27-2018, 12:16 AM
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She's gorgeous! Those are beauty marks, you know. No need for "plastic surgery."

I didn't coin the term, but I'll repeat it here: That gun is hand held history. Don't you want to know who used it, what they did with it, where it's been? I may be the odd man out here, but I wouldn't do anything but shoot it, contemplate its history and preserve it.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:07 AM
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Nice gun Larry

I've sent one gun to fords, was very happy with the work but they're only original once. Personally I'd leave it alone.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:15 AM
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Regardless of what you decide to do with it, that's a great find, easily worth what you paid.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:23 AM
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Larry,

If it were mine, I would be tempted to leave it as is.
It's got some honest wear and it's original and the money you invested will easily be recovered when you sell it someday.

Just enjoy it!!
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:42 AM
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I'd leave it alone, looks good to me.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:02 AM
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Hi Larry,

Wow! Great find and a great story.
This needed to go to someone who knows what it is, and who'd appreciate it. I know you've had some custom stuff done in regard to 32 cal. So, all the better for you.

Funny thing....this is the exact opposite of your other experience you related just earlier concerning that nice 22 Outdoorsman. That buyer not only missed out, but had no idea how nice that one is, in my opinion. But, you're an upstanding guy and refunded him "el pronto"!

Maybe this pre-16 is your fittingly just reward for how you handled that one??

Well done!
Jim
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:51 AM
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Isn't it a shame what can happen to a great revolver because of poor storage and upkeep. I have Smiths much older than that that have been shot a fair amount but still look great because they had been properly take care of. Good thing it's in good hands now, for the rest of it's life it will be better taken care of.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:09 AM
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Thanks for all the reply’s, just gonna play with it and have some fun. Will decide if it will get refinished as I play. Loaded up 200 .32 longs on the Dillon 550 and was gonna prime 100 .327’s to load at a later date. Then change the press back to .38 but maybe not now. May load up another 200 before I start loading .38’s again.

THREEDFLYER has a Pre-16 with the ser number around 66,000 area and his is a Lerk. Mine is 68.500 and is a straight ejector. No ship date yet, Roy must be busy.

Took the side plate off and surprisingly it was pretty clean. Hit it with gun scrubber then lubed it all up. Took the rebound out and stoned it and replaced it with a 13 lb spring. I shoot double action mainly and it feels better now.

It will get a nice set of grips for shooting, have to check the wood pile. Larry

PS- would have helped the budget if the outdoorsman would have sold in my other thread

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Old 07-27-2018, 11:11 AM
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Honest wear??? That revolver has most certainly been abused. It needs a restoration as it is a rare gun. Have Fords reblue it or even nickel plate. It will never be original again, the previous owner saw to that. Pardon me, but in it's present state, it is an ugly gun, worthy of a nice refinish. I am one of the fortunate ones to have a nice one I bought on this forum a few years back. Big Larry
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Larry, your pre-16th is significantly better than a Model 16 that recently sold on GB that came out of Maine (my apologies to the forum member who bought it if I offend you)
No offense. I knew what I was getting, just underestimated that I could get S&W to work on it even though it is model marked. Also knew it was going to be a unicorn search for a replacement barrel. Search continues. So, Larry can see just how good his gun looks, here's mine. Been contemplating taking it to Professional Gunsmith - Accurate Plating & Weaponry | Cogan Custom for a polish and reblue and just leave the cut 5" barrel alone. It still shoots good.





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Old 07-27-2018, 12:56 PM
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Very glad you got it Larry.
May I suggest Pinto power.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:22 PM
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Guy, you’re gun looks good as a 5”. Abt 5 yrs ago I gave Andy Horvath a k-22 and got back a centerfire..32 long with a 5” bbl. He cut it for me after Clearwater re-bored it to .32. It matched my 5” Illinois State Police overrun K-38. There is a place in Dayton Oh called wicked welding, they do micro-welding. One of the guys that comes to the NE Ohio Bunch had them weld up a rust spot on one of his guns. He had to file the welds himself and cold blue it. Came out nice. Just an idea.

The Pre-32 was shipped from the factory December 1949 according to Roy. Paul, it would make a sweet pinto. Larry

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Old 07-27-2018, 04:23 PM
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Default I'm new to this site and have questions

I have a new 629-6 from the performance center and would like to speak with some of you about good deer and black bear loads.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:24 PM
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Default Nice Jebus35745

Very nice find, just the kind i prefer,you can shoot it and not depreciate it. Makes me/us very envious. Congratulations!
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjm6120 View Post
Very nice rescue, Larry. It has found a good home!

It would have been better if he would have let me have it.


I want to see it the next time we're at NOSC Larry.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:39 PM
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Paul, it would make a sweet pinto. Larry

It would make a wicked Pinto..............keep me informed.
let me live a little vicariously through you on this one.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:36 PM
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Great snag. I would leave it as is, myself. Do what you want.
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Old 07-28-2018, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldon View Post
I have a new 629-6 from the performance center and would like to speak with some of you about good deer and black bear loads.
Welcome to the Forum.

You should start your own thread in the 1980-present section or possibly in the reloading section if you intend to use handloads.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:54 PM
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Well, got to the club and blurted out “what a dumb ass” and everyone turned and looked. I forgot the ammo for the Pre-16 at home, no range report. Was in a hurry when I packed the shooting bag this morning.

Does anyone know the amount of guns made in each area of serial numbers ranges? Mine falls in the group K-68470 to 68530 according to the SCSW. Did they make 60 guns or just grab frames in this range to make ?? amount. Would this be a ask Roy question?? Larry
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:57 PM
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K68483 and K68510 are both Pre-16s. There are no other serial numbers that I can document from that range, though other numbers may be known. My impression is that S&W tended to make up batches of a particular model in round number lots of 20, 25 or 30 at a time depending on the era. I would guess that K68470 (or probably K68471) through K68530 would be a run of Pre-16s. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone could show me that one or more of those were made up as K-38s. If a rush order for an out-of-stock item came in, S&W was completely capable of diverting a frame from the production stream and finishing it as something else. The company could also take a completed model out of the vault and modify it to be something for which there was an immediate demand, which would also create a serial number/model discontinuity.

It's easy to guess but hard to know without crawling the records, so take this answer with a grain of salt.
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Last edited by DCWilson; 08-01-2018 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Correct a typo in one of the crucial serial numbers. Crimniny! i used to be able to proofread.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:03 PM
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I can beat that Larry. I got out to our rifle range for a match. I was planning on shooting my custom barreled Winchester low wall musket in 22 LR. When I opened the bulk box of Federal Auto Match 22s, it was full of pre-lubed Minie Balls for my Zouave musket. I planned ahead and still screwed up!

That's OK though, think how much more you will enjoy your Model 16 when it actually gets to the range WITH your ammo!

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Old 08-01-2018, 03:40 AM
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Guy, you’re gun looks good as a 5”. Abt 5 yrs ago I gave Andy Horvath a k-22 and got back a centerfire..32 long with a 5” bbl. He cut it for me after Clearwater re-bored it to .32. It matched my 5” Illinois State Police overrun K-38. There is a place in Dayton Oh called wicked welding, they do micro-welding. One of the guys that comes to the NE Ohio Bunch had them weld up a rust spot on one of his guns. He had to file the welds himself and cold blue it. Came out nice. Just an idea.
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Larry and Guy,

Neither of your guns can be polished and reblued, the pitting is way too deep. The reason S&W won't work on them; they would only replace the barrels and cyl if they had them.

Micro welding is the only option and it works very well!

Then I'd send them for a Carbonia Refinish: See post #12 for example here: Looking for Suggestions for a Refinishing Shop

Here:
Classic Guns L.T.D.
1702 Dixie Hwy.
Crete IL 60417 United States
Phone:
708-367-1620
Email = classicguns@att.net

In fact, they may do or have their own source for micro welding.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:16 AM
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Thanks Jim for the info on Classic Guns. It would be a good option to get the gun reblued if I decide to go that direction. Will call and ask questions. Every time I look at the gun, the rust doesn’t look too bad. It would look great if restored properly. Have a nice set of KB grips in spalted maple fo put on it.

I have the .32 ammo in the range bag already, Larry

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Old 08-01-2018, 09:41 AM
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If you decide to re-blue.....why not send it out to an engraver......just a thought! Not many engraved pre-16's out there that I am aware of.

Let us know how she shoots!
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:08 PM
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Jim, I think I can cut most of the corroded barrel off at 4". Asked S&W to do that if they couldn't replace the barrel and they said "no." Am also thinking about engraving as Tom suggests^. I still need to have Bob Cogan look at it. He's a wizard, IMO. I know he microwelds but don't know how much $$$ he charges.


BTW, your Classic Guns folks may be out of business. They no longer have a website.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:02 PM
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Jim, I think I can cut most of the corroded barrel off at 4". Asked S&W to do that if they couldn't replace the barrel and they said "no." Am also thinking about engraving as Tom suggests^. I still need to have Bob Cogan look at it. He's a wizard, IMO. I know he microwelds but don't know how much $$$ he charges.


BTW, your Classic Guns folks may be out of business. They no longer have a website.
Guy,

I just spoke to John at Classic Guns, they no longer have a website but they're in business. He said ~ $200 for a K frame in Carbonna (also spelled Carbonia) blue, if you disassemble and polish. About twice that for them to polish. If you do, leave the barrel in the frame!

He also gave me the name of Glenn Fewless in Waterford, WI, (262) 534-5154. He's a metalsmith and member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild: ACGG | Glenn Fewless

Frankly, your gun is so nice otherwise, I would not polish it except the micro welded areas (Glenn may do this) to match the early post war satin finish already on the gun.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:23 PM
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OK, I called Classic Guns and they are alive and well, still rebluing Guns. They discontinued the web site bc it cost them money and they are staying busy without it. They can have a gun micro welded but won’t guarantee a color match, the welding is a different metal then the gun. They have an engraver in PA to restore lettering, he charges per letter. They use the carbonia blue method. The bluing price was reasonable for an average gloss job. If you tale the gun apart yourself you save money. If they have to remove parts and reassemble, it would be more.

The link for post 12 Jim had does not work. Guy must have called earlier, it was the second S&W call made in 1949 for him today. I see now that Jim called before me. Larry

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Old 08-01-2018, 02:52 PM
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I called and than eliminated the website link in my post.
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Old 08-07-2018, 09:49 PM
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Put 3 different reloads thru it today. Shot off sandbags at 50 ft and let me tell you, it’s hard to see where you hold on the bullseye. Old eyes. Most of the groups were abt 11/2” with some flyers. Next week I’ll use a B Square Mount with a scope. This way I will get precise aiming. Need to do more with the trigger pull, still too heavy. Larry
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:12 PM
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Well, got to the club and blurted out “what a dumb ass” and everyone turned and looked. I forgot the ammo for the Pre-16 at home, no range report. Was in a hurry when I packed the shooting bag this morning.

Does anyone know the amount of guns made in each area of serial numbers ranges? Mine falls in the group K-68470 to 68530 according to the SCSW. Did they make 60 guns or just grab frames in this range to make ?? amount. Would this be a ask Roy question?? Larry

I own one in this range. K68485. I posted about it with more photos in the wrong year 1961-1980 forum by mistake but received great info. "Can you help with my K32". Cheers - Jesse

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Old 08-14-2018, 01:58 PM
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Used a ransom rest today at 50 ft, that’s the distance I have access to and shoot. Ransom rest was clamped to a movable shooting table for 2 people. The table Was not attached to the wall or floor. Seemed to like the HBWC better. Trying to post photos from the iPad, Larry
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:26 PM
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To me it looks fine just the way it is. This may be a poor comparison but in the collectable car market survivors are bringing almost the same money as good restorations and sometime more. Anything collectable is only original once.
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