Hello all, I recently had listed a S&W MKII for sale on this forum that had been modified to shoot .45 AR or .45 ACP. The gun was fitted with a nice set of old ivory stocks with S&W medallions.

I have decided to put on a correct set of wood stocks and keep these ivories to put on something else in the future.

I am curious what the value of these might be by themselves. They have some wear, but are still pretty nice. There has also been a repair made at some point.

You can also see that the right stock panel only has been checkered. I have been told this was common practice to have the outside of the shooting hand be checkered and not the inside grip panel.

Your thoughts/opinions are appreciated.

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Tom

I looks to me like you have two different grip panels there. Maybe its the light, and maybe its the smooth vs checkering, or maybe its something else. They look like different ivory to me. As to the story about only checkering one panel, I've not heard that before. I would have expected that both panels would have the diamond, not just one. There is also something different in the sliver medallions, and the manner in which they are mounted.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike,

Thanks for your thoughts.....here is a photo showing the butt of the ivory stocks. I have a hard time believing that they did not come from the same piece of ivory.

The story of only one side being checkered came from my iquiring a while back as to why only one panel would be checkered. I also thought something was odd about that. I have seen photos of this same scenario posted online.

The medallions are seriously worn and more so on the right side panel.

As mentioned, it was the outside stock panel that was checkered depending if the gun was worn on the left or right side of the body.

Of course I am grateful for your observations, and can only speculate at this point.

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Tom I really can't help on current value.
My thoughts on them are yes same piece of Ivory and very nice as well.
If they were mine I'd check options on enhancing them.
New medallions ?
Making that repair much better now a days I think it could be made near invisible.
Either polishing the checkered panel or having both checkered.
Just my thoughts and not sure what's workable.

__________________
Paul
S&WCA #2726

Tom, I learned recently from Ralph (rct269) that S&W never made N frame ivories, or so he says Roy said. So they aren't factory. Recently, some newly made ivory stocks were selling in the $1K range. I would think that yours might be in the Keith Brown to new ivory range.

__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Whoever told you mixed grips were the “thing” is only a guy trying to hustle you... because those are a mixed set of grips. Think about a collector car with a perfect paint job and the identical car that is scratched up. Both are desirable but condition dictates value. What the grips fit will also reveal value. Do they fit a popular gun or not?

I know nothing of their value, and not much about ivory stocks at all, but I have read it was common practice to carve the steer head on one grip panel. Maybe in one of Elmer Keith's books. Perhaps checkering was the same way.

__________________
John 3:16 .

There’s a set of K frame Magna style ivory at my LGS for $300. They are usually up there on EBay.

My vote is the medallions cannot even be original to the period of the 455, so stocks were made later. Only dished gold washed brass would have been period correct for WWI and I believe those might be K frame 1930s medallions. Stocks are not book-ends, so could be from different pairs?? Since the right stock is darker, maybe the gun was open carried for some time and weather, sun, dirt accumulated on the outside facing stock. That would explain the wear on the medallion if it was not set deep enough.

So the stocks are not factory, they are not period correct, they were made by someone who could not even find a matching pair of medallions, only one stock is checked, and the poorly repaired break is quite a distraction. ?? $250 ??

I would have period correct medallions installed and have the checking done on the left stock, while sharpening up the right, and take care of restoring the break correctly. Done right you will not even be able to see the break line. All that done would make them a very attractive addition to your converted 455.

__________________
Gary
SWCA 2515

Carving on one grip panel (the outside panel) only was/is commonly seen. I for one do NOT believe these are a "mixed" set.....but I DID ask for your opinions and observations!!

All that said, depending on cost I could certainly see having some work done on this set to clean them up.
If I did that I would not install them on the modified .455, they would find a new home....maybe on a nice .44 HE or ??

I am not up on who does these repairs/restorations on ivory, any suggests are appreciated.

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

It’s important to state at the outset that I don’t pretend to be an expert on ivory stocks.

That said, although I’ve seen more than one set of ivory stocks with a decorative carving (eg a steer’s head) on only the outside panel of a set of stocks, but have never seen a set with provenance that has checkering on only one panel.

I’d think that the these stocks are worth more on the gun than they are if offered for sale separately.

I wouldn’t fool around trying to improve these stocks by repairing or ‘restoring’ them: that’s just throwing good money at them with the idea of concealing whatever charming evidence of age and originality they have.

On the gun, they add $300-500 to the value the gun would have as a gun without original stocks.

Offered separately they are mismatched stocks in rather poor condition worth less than $250.

I don't know how common carving one side was, but I did have a (shush) Colt with these pearls.








In this post, there is an example of a single side carved ivory panel with the name of an ivory artist that may do a repair. There is also a product called Bondic that can be used to fill and bond broken ivory, ceramics, etc. It is similar to the ceramics dentists use to fill cavities and bonds with UV light.

__________________
Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

As an aside to all this, if you do have period correct medallions installed, use the correct size. The N frame ivories I asked Roy about carry I frame size medallions, so I figured it was a good bet they weren't factory. Then when the letter showed up saying S&W didn't offer ivory grips for their N frame revolvers, it became a moot point.

As to value, I don't know----but I figure I have a pretty good clue. When I went to pick the gun up, it was laid out on a table with no grips installed. Two pairs of grips laid beside it. One was a seemingly period correct set of wood targets----very nicely done, and clearly the most appropriate selection for the gun. The other was the service style ivories---take your pick.

Ralph Tremaine

I might pay $300 for those in that condition just to have the ivory available for me to use elsewhere. I bought tons of ivory back in the 1970's when it was available and legal. Stuff like chess sets, sets of horses, etc. What I have is just too nice to be cut up for other applications. It would be nice to have some old junky ivory. For example, I could have sent Keith a chunk to use in dressing up the grips he just made for me.

__________________
Dr. B

Not sure it’s elephant ivory. It is matched, from the same tusk. Looks to have been bedded around the inside edges, I do this on some wood, when figure is present and near the edge it can be fragile, reinforcing with epoxy give me a nice hard edge to finish. The difference on the mounting of the medallions viewed from the backside is a deeper spot, countersink. The checkering on one side only is a bit odd but no reason someone couldn’t have decided to do it that way, as mentioned earlier above some carving is done only on one side.
Just my thoughts.

__________________
kbgrips.com

Tom: I happen to really like that set of ivories and have a couple of guns that they would look stunning on. I can only really afford those old N frames that wen to work every day for a few decades. Those are appropriate. Crank up a fire and listen to the stories they tell.

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd

Thanks Keith,

I really appreciate you chiming in on this.
In your opinion could these be reworked with new medallions, checker the smoot panel to match the other and freshen them up a bit?

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

As is, not factory, bad repair and non-matching incorrect medallions - maybe $250, or so, on Ebay. Up grading with new checkering on left panel, correct new medallions and decent repair - maybe $500 or so, but upgrade cost might not pencil out. Ed.

Tom, they could be reworked but that would be a shame to do. Any work, especially checkering would remove that patina, and if the angle of the diamond wasn’t spot on plus the lay of the lines it would stick out like a sore thumb. Removing those medallions and drilling is asking for disaster also.
In short, take Randy’s advice from above and pair the stocks with an appropriate era and condition gun, maybe work a deal with him. Knowing when “not” to do something was a hard learn for me !

__________________
kbgrips.com

Keith I am in agreement with you on this, the stocks have character as is and need to get put on an age/condition appropriate S&W.

I took them off of the modified MKII for now and will sell that piece with some wood stocks from my stash.

Thanks Keith!!

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Here are some photos with the stocks on a pre-war Outdoorsman......pretty nice!

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Tom, nice set of stocks and look good on the Outdoorsman. I agree the cost to upgrade would wash anything more that they would sell for. I would only try to get someone to repair that broken corner. If you like the look of ivory on guns definitely keep them. Wow, you got some of the grip Gods in this thread for opinions. Larry

OK, here comes an opinion from the most non-expert guy on the forum. They look evenly aged. May be an original set, maybe at some point panels got mixed up between two sets. Perhaps in the past a previous owner checkered the one panel. I have never seen a set with unmatched panels like this but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

1. I think most buyers will be turned off by the mismatch.

2. The "Service" style stocks do not bring near what the Magnas will fetch.

3. Obvious and severe repair on one side. If I saw the set offered I would pass at any price (and I love ivory). I really think $200-$250 would be the best you would do with these. But you never know. Somebody might think they are just what his old revolver needs and go higher.

__________________
No life story has happy end.

Those are nice. As a side note, I make jewelry and have made some pieces with Wooly Mammoth ivory. We all no that the Wooly Mammoth has been extinct for about 50,000 years, but you should have seen the uproar I faced by listing a piece on Etsy and showing a photo on Facebook. These libs are just about ate up with stupid. So now, I have this unsellable ivory, even if it is from a critter that has been gone from the earth for centuries.

__________________
Doug "N Frame Addict"
CO

I believe they are a 'matched' pair. One panel carved, checkered, etc was not all that uncommon for 'shootists' in the 'between the wars' years. I've seen several pairs and own a pair with the right grip smooth and the left panel having finger grooves, another type of embellishment sometimes encountered.
They look great on the Outdoorsman.

__________________
Sheriff Russell Cottle. ret

Something went on with that right panel.
The top rounded portion of the grip (where the medallion is set) is very visibly thinner when the grip is viewed set into the frame than the left panel.
That portion is 'dished' like an early smooth N frame grip on the right grip.
But generously rounded and high above the frame on the left grip panel.

The backs look nearly the same. The countersink around the right grip medalion peg is I think nothing more than a drill spot to cut out the original riviting of the peg so as to be able to remove the medalion.
All that so the grip could be reshaped to it's present style.

That area around the medallion on the rt grip are scars from filing or very coarse grit paper,,my guess re-profiling or shaping from the thicker matching style of the left grip.

I don't think the rt medallion is so much worn as it has been part of the reshaping process of that portion of the panel.
,(I think)it took some damage and ended up being filed/sanded down in the process of reshaping the grip. Even after being reset in the finished product, a couple swipes over the brass with some grit cloth will start you on the way to removing more and more detail trying to fix the situation.

Next, Look at the pic of the bottom of the grips and the butt of the pistol w/ser#.
You can see how much thinner overall the right grip panel is than the left panel even down at the base of the grip.
But yet they (at least to me) look to have been a matched pair to start or at least some effort made to allaign two pieces cut from one..

Perhaps the body of the right panel had carving on it,,something more conventional that we are used to seeing. Relief perhaps, but maybe not. Whatever it was, someone didn't want it there. Name or initials perhaps...

The remedy??,, file and sand the offending carving or ornamentation off, reshape as best you can to your abilitys and tools available and go on.
The result is a much thinner panel over all. Sink the screw escutcheon in if needed.

Then the thought to checker it to perhaps cover a few remaining small cuts in the ivory from the old carving. Or just because they thought checkering would be fun. It can get old real fast on small panels like a grip.
'I'll get to that other side some other time'

Just some observations and some guesses as to what may have happened.

added..
Can you sell ivory once again interstate? Some States have put a complete ban on the sale of Elephant and even fossilized (mammoth) ivory.
Hard to keep up with the laws lately.

I looked at mammoth ivory in Alaska but ended up buying fossilized walrus tusk that was a little more affordable. Had 2 sets of grips made--one for me and one for my son. They turned out beautiful. I would never be ashamed of mammoth grips.! Legal and beautiful... what more can you ask?

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd

Keith, thank you for sending Tom my way. As we speak these ivory grips are headed my way and will be going on a worn, but original 5" Triple Lock that came to me wearing jigegd bone and rhinestones.

__________________
Randy
Provenance nerd