I just aquired this beauty and I can't decide if I'm more excited or more disappointed.
First off the good:
She is a beautiful true 19-1 K465xxx 4 screw L marked on the back of the cylinder, target hammer, target trigger. Nickel is in excellent condition case color is stong with minimal wear. Timing is spot on and butter smooth.
Now the bad:
It wasn't always a nickel gun. The frame is stamped R-N with a rework date of 3/70.
I have chatted with a few different experts and gotten opinions ranging from meh just a shooter grade gun to yah factory nickel 19-1, even if refinished, is still an amazing find.
What are your guy's thoughts on a factory finish change on such an uncommon gun?
Here are a few pictures, man nickel is hard to photograph!!
I'd be happy to own it. I'm not looking for more work on history letters, but did you request one? It should tell you what was the original finish. I had a nickel gun that I bought from an employee at Smith & Wesson. It too was stamp RN. He ordered it from Employee Sales. They had no nickel in stock and weren't sure when they were going to do more. They pulled a blued unit from inventory and replaced it. Being it was already in the books as a blued gun, when they changed the finish they had to change the description of the finish to nickel. Yours could be similar. If you still don't want it, I'd be very interested in buying it.
One of the great things about the factory re-nickel is that they did NOT nickel the front sight. The 19-1's are way cool. If I paid $1.5K+ for it I might be somewhat disappointed. If I paid anything under $1K I would be smiling the big smile. Anything in between, I would forget what I paid and just enjoy it. It is a beauty!
Very nice shooter there!! The grips are beautiful also and I assume they are original to the gun. I would rather own a refinished -1 than no -1 at all !! Enjoy
Don is correct about some guns having a change of finish (or barrel length) before being shipped, but since the refinish date is 3 70 and the revolver was most likely first shipped in 62/63, I believe the 19-1 was returned long after it was originally shipped.
Nice gun!
Love those grips!
And whoever ‘they’ are did a great job.
They didn’t plate the trigger, hammer and front sight like you often see on the aftermarket jobs.
I bought a 19-1 back about 6 maybe 7 years ago. An old cop gun. Came with T-hammer and trigger and when I took the goodyears off it, I discovered the Farrant cut. It had also been refinished in what, in this part of the country, is called a "Hunter Finish". I was looking for a shooter grade gun to save the finish on my other 19s (yes, I have more than a couple. 19s had just cracked the $500 mark, in this part of the country, and the last one I bought was toooooooo nice to be a beater. This 4" 19-1 was under 4 bills and passed all the standard tests, so, it came home with me. I have ("shot the snot out of it" as I was advised at the time.) enjoyed it for what it is.
Looking back and seeing what was done to my gun and the OPs. Some may wonder "What in the Heck were they thinking". Well this is probably about right:
In 1970 (when the OPs 19 was refinished) The gun had been in production for about 15 years and as far as anyone could tell the Model 19 would be made forever. I can tell you for a fact that nobody was paying any attention to dash numbers (19s or any other premium Smith were hard to get) It was, after all, the most popular cop gun on the market! The guy, who owned it at the time, wanted a Nickel gun, so he sent it in. (He could have had it done at the local bumper shop instead!) I believe that, in years to come, "minty" factory refinished guns, especially semi-rare models will become a separate and sought after sub category of an already highly collectable gun. If it were mine. I would get it lettered and keep the unit and paperwork together. It could pay off!
I had the finish changed on my 19-3 4" in about 1978. It had a broken hammer stud so a trip to the "Mother Ship" was going to happen anyway and after 6 or 7 years of being carried in an open top holster and being in contact with my somewhat acidic personality and even more acidic sweat it was looking a little shabby. Still have the gun (it was my first new Smith). In the sun the back strap shows a little thinning but overall it still looks good. Do I wish that I hadn't changed it? Yes but who knew!
Lastly, for those who may think that some great "Sacrilege" was done by the original refinisher I would like you to know that those of us who grew up after WW2 were privileged to buy and own many great surplus firearms from all over the world. In the 60s (when I started my gun madness) Mausers of all kinds, 03s,03-A3s, 1917s and many others were available in every gun shop, hardware store and filling station from coast to coast. We took them home and "Sporterized" them. Why? Because a new hunting rifle cost $75 bucks or more and I could modify my $15 to 30 dollar surplus rifle for, maybe half that. Stocks could be had for 7 to 10 dollars. Bolts could be bent for a 5 spot. Drilling and tapping was a buck a hole. After all these guns had no "Collectability". They were just a way to get a hunting rifle and enjoy our hobby of gun tinkering. It was just the way things were done. But like I said: Who knew!!!
Nice gun!
Love those grips!
And whoever ‘they’ are did a great job.
They didn’t plate the trigger, hammer and front sight like you often see on the aftermarket jobs.
Factory is factory, whether what is in question was done the first time it was in the factory, or the second, or...
Im not a big nickel finish fan anyway, but as far as I'm concerned, you have a desirable Smith and should enjoy it. If you are really concerned about its pedigree, as Don and others have suggested, a letter might be desirable, especially if you get one from the Historical branch that confirms what was done on the return trip. You might find that this is an interesting part of its history, and you will have something to wave at the purists who call it "just a shooter!" JMHO of course.
fungunnin, congrats on a great revolver. I have a model 19-2 that is identical to yours right down to the RN stamp. IMHO, we both have classy high end shooter grade revolvers. I think, I got lucky with this one as total price was a little less than $700.00
"I'd be happy to own it. I'm not looking for more work on history letters, but did you request one? It should tell you what was the original finish. I had a nickel gun that I bought from an employee at Smith & Wesson. It too was stamp RN. He ordered it from Employee Sales. They had no nickel in stock and weren't sure when they were going to do more. They pulled a blued unit from inventory and replaced it. Being it was already in the books as a blued gun, when they changed the finish they had to change the description of the finish to nickel. Yours could be similar. If you still don't want it, I'd be very interested in buying it."
"Is it "original"? No. Is it a rare, hard to find model? Yes. Is it an awesome looking gun and one I'd be proud to own? Also yes."
Well.....
I realize this is the collectors' forum, but sometimes you just have to put aside whether or not a fine firearm is "collectible" or coveted by "serious" collectors and just enjoy it for what it is. I think your 19-1 fits that perfectly.
Well.....
I realize this is the collectors' forum, but sometimes you just have to put aside whether or not a fine firearm is "collectible" or coveted by "serious" collectors and just enjoy it for what it is. I think your 19-1 fits that perfectly.
"Serious Collectors" live in a world that they define. As you've seen, lots of people here have admired this gun. Others would never buy a refinished gun, regardless of who did the work. I didn't see if you mentioned how much you paid, but if you love the gun take care of it and enjoy it.
Refinishing a gun today is expensive. A $300 gun with a $200 refinish is not worth $500. But someone else paid to have that gun refinished. If you are happy with the price you paid great. If you are unhappy with the price you paid I am guessing that you did not buy the gun as a retirement investment. You bought it because you wanted it. So enjoy!
Well.....
I realize this is the collectors' forum, but sometimes you just have to put aside whether or not a fine firearm is "collectible" or coveted by "serious" collectors and just enjoy it for what it is. I think your 19-1 fits that perfectly.
*
There are a substantial number of collectors here, I am sure, but I am not so sure I would call it a collectors' forum.
That aside: with the exception of the very rare and truly unusual items that have historical importance of some type, the least important consideration about any firearm is the collector value. They are, first and foremost, a working tool, used for serious purposes by serious people (mostly men, especially in years gone by, but women too).
I would be willing to say that the modifications made by Dave Keith to various revolvers over the years are worth more for the real world uses of firearms than any original finish, wood grips, etc. His work did not reduce their value for the purposes that matter - it increased it. Likewise, this revolver is a darned good one for the purposes that matter. I am not all that excited about nickel vs. blue - for most purposes stainless or a good hard aftermarket finish such as hard chrome is far superior. However, this was well done - leaving the sights as they were made this revolver far more useful to actually use than having nickel sights, for example. This is a great buy, and I wish the owner many years of happy and productive use.
I hope people are collecting guns for many decades and centuries. I changed the trigger, the sights and the stock on my Rugger 10/22. I kept all the old parts and they are carefully kept together. All the small stuff is in a freezer bag with the original owner's manual and the receipt. The original stock and original box are on premises. But someone is going to separate them, grandchild, great grandchild, in law. Then the modified 10/22 will be decried as "Bubba-ed." But all the modifications made the gun more useful to me. I couldn't see the rear sight, so I changed for an aperture. The aftermarket trigger is better. The pistol grip stock is better for shooting steel against the clock. I'm not arguing that dead stock guns are not more collectible. I'm just confessing now.
19-1 Factory Nickel .... Sort of
Anything in between, I would forget what I paid and just enjoy it.
It is a beauty!
Linear Mode
