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  #51  
Old 08-23-2018, 12:55 AM
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You are more than welcome to come visit California for a hands on inspection. I would have been happy to post larger magnified shots, but this is turning into ego when it should be about the gun not interpretation of condition. I made this post in hope of giving enjoyment to the forum community and sharing information with younger collector members interested in learning about prewar firearms. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we are going to get there.

You have the right to your opinion as is the case with other members. You posted a position referring to condition. Others including one of my earlier posts responded accordingly with an alternate point of view. Respectfully and I really mean this respectfully with no hidden intent, if you are personally offended by someone's opinion and the comments are within the range of acceptable within the forum rules, my suggestion - take a deep breath,relax and let it go.

Maybe someone wants to talk about the sight insert. Did all guns come this way? Were all the envelopes for sight inserts numbered to the gun like this one? What is a tube and why does this gun have one? Where is the SN on the box located? How do I know this box is original to the gun and not a replacement? Who was the original owner? How does one determine a prewar RM screwdriver? How do we know the Cert is original and not a fake? Are there any items missing from the picture needed to make this a complete package?





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Originally Posted by Collects View Post
Really?

Disingenuous?

I state my opinion, based upon my own knowledge and experience with Smith & Wesson revolvers, and I am disingenuous?

I am offended at your remark.

Could the OP please post a close up photo, or two, of the stocks? I see wear patterns. Others think I am disingenuous.
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  #52  
Old 08-23-2018, 12:59 AM
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No mistake~~this was about ego from the get-go~~
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Thinnes View Post
Thanks for the pic and the Wikipedia article. Very interesting.I imagine the guy with the shiniest Caddy in Chicago also took exquisite care of this gun! I saw this gun listed for sale but didn’t know he was a celebrity. Did you have to pay the published price or did you get a discount? Again, awesome gun. Well done.
Thank you... Don't as a general rule talk numbers on purchases. This being said, my buy on the gun was considerably less than the listed asking minimum and the purchase went through an alternate seller who purchased the gun for an unknown source. Beyond this I have no additional information.

My read.. I think the gun today at full retail value is at a slightly higher number than the posted GB start price listed. If this was a RIA sale 20k plus is my call easy. I feel the original GB seller (no offense intended) could have done a better job explaining the gun and overall package. These RM revolvers are extremely specialized. A seller has to focus on a specific group of buyers while having a clear understanding of what is important to a Smith high-end collector or the gun will sit. Very much like high-end real estate.

Last edited by bigl1911; 08-23-2018 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by chiefbob81 View Post
Collects, do you realize the OP picture one is the RM, picture three is the 1950?

Bigl1911, what does the term "vertical" mean.
Lol I am so deep in!! Vertical (denoting a point at the zenith or the highest point of something).- marketing term for specific area of interest in business or products type. As an example, some collectors like model 29 Smiths. They are focused on this one vertical while collectors specialize in K frame- another vertical of Smith collector interest. Then there are the fools like me who have horizontal interests and collect everything!!

Last edited by bigl1911; 08-23-2018 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:49 AM
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Mark-would you be willing to post a clear picture or scan of the certificate? Thanks for considering it.
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Old 08-23-2018, 09:24 AM
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LOL.... beautiful gun, great package......... I get a kick out of the whole unfired thing....... the gun is what it is..... the fact it came with almost the full package IMHO lends credence to the probability it was never fired outside the factory.

I have a 6 1/2" RM that was a gun shop save...missing the original grips ( I've added a set of no bark stags; from Executioner; that I felt would be period correct).....

I've had it to a couple of "NE Ohio Bunchings" (by the way the next one is October 6th/there is a thread in The Lounge )... there has been a strong consensus from that "Bunch" of S&W collectors that it may have never been fired outside the factory...... based on the condition of the recoil shield......it looks brand spanking new...

Bit of a turn line? yes, it's 79 years old. I got it at a LGS where it was on consignment ....it was obvious the owner (the story was it was his father's ,maybe Grandfather's, gun and his wife wanted it out of the house) and the shop had no idea it was anything other than a S&W .357.

There were only about 5000 RM made..... in a previous thread IIRC "We" can only account for less than half that number still being around...... what small percentage might still be in "as new from the factory", unfired, condition ??????


Congrats Bigl1911 on a getting a really really great gun!!!

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Old 08-23-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bigl1911 View Post
...Maybe someone wants to talk about the sight insert. Did all guns come this way? Were all the envelopes for sight inserts numbered to the gun like this one? What is a tube and why does this gun have one? Where is the SN on the box located? How do I know this box is original to the gun and not a replacement? Who was the original owner? How does one determine a prewar RM screwdriver? How do we know the Cert is original and not a fake? Are there any items missing from the picture needed to make this a complete package?
Mark:

As a .357 Mag collector, I like to talk about all of the above.

With that said, my most complete package is for a 7" RM that came to me with a box and most of the goodies - it is missing the tube and the registration card (because the registration card got sent back...). It too came with the extra rear sight blade in an envelope that was numbered to the gun. The envelope has the serial number written on it but also has "Extra rear sight - don't loose" written on it - does your envelope say anything like that?





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Old 08-23-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kwill1911 View Post
Mark-would you be willing to post a clear picture or scan of the certificate? Thanks for considering it.
Hi kevin,

Of course I can. Hope you are well..
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Old 08-23-2018, 05:15 PM
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Beautiful! A superb find and congratulations on becoming the caretaker of this magnificent specimen.
To "some" that seem to fixate on inane points that have no value to us who appreciate the real value of a find like this, I leave you with this;
"A **** sliced with a razor blade or cut with a butter knife is still a ****". Consider this counselor.
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Old 08-23-2018, 05:30 PM
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Great package!!

My envelope for the sight blade only has the serial number written in pencil.

At the Reno show today ran into another RM. This one is without cert but I think came with king sight and hump back hammer from factory. Includes most of the paperwork with the addition of a hump back hammer literature from SW. Never seen one of these.



Thanks Richard for sharing your amazing RM!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKmesa View Post
Mark:

As a .357 Mag collector, I like to talk about all of the above.

With that said, my most complete package is for a 7" RM that came to me with a box and most of the goodies - it is missing the tube and the registration card (because the registration card got sent back...). It too came with the extra rear sight blade in an envelope that was numbered to the gun. The envelope has the serial number written on it but also has "Extra rear sight - don't loose" written on it - does your envelope say anything like that?






Last edited by bigl1911; 08-23-2018 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 08-23-2018, 05:59 PM
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Default Tube?

Can someone tell me what the tube is for?
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:10 PM
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Can someone tell me what the tube is for?
The certificates were mailed by the factory to the owner in the mailing tube. Most of the time the tubes were discarded (like an envelope). Finding a RM with a certificate is rare. Finding one with a certificate and a mailing tube is very rare... and very desirable.
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RKmesa View Post
....
With that said, my most complete package is for a 7" RM that came to me with a box and most of the goodies - it is missing the tube and the registration card (because the registration card got sent back...). It too came with the extra rear sight blade in an envelope that was numbered to the gun. The envelope has the serial number written on it but also has "Extra rear sight - don't loose" written on it - does your envelope say anything like that?
Off topic, but I had assumed that the proliferation of the incorrect spelling of "loose" when meaning "lose" must be due to some glitch in autocorrect, that faulty programming was making "loose" the first choice instead of the more likely to be used "lose". Because that many people couldn't be that unaware of how the word is spelled, could they? And they just weren't bothering to correct the autocorrect?

Yet it seems some people were doing the same thing 90 years ago. Amazing!
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects View Post
Really?

Disingenuous?

I state my opinion, based upon my own knowledge and experience with Smith & Wesson revolvers, and I am disingenuous?

I am offended at your remark.

Could the OP please post a close up photo, or two, of the stocks? I see wear patterns. Others think I am disingenuous.
Frankly, I'm offended that you are offended! I think if your skin is that thin, you should keep it out of the game.... and I'm thankful you're NOT my lawyer.
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:15 PM
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Let me start my post off by giving a hardy congratulations to the op for finding and buying such a nice revolver in such a complete package. Very beautiful gun indeed! I have just turned my eye recently towards prewar S&W revolvers and knowing that each RM was assembled with a build sheet that had each item or part of gun checked with either a tic mark in a box or filling in the blank or even specifying say a special front sight or a grip adapter. My question is your front sight a "call gold bead sight"? Looks like it may be but I can not tell not seeing front sight face. The literature the op found on the "humpback hammer" is awsome.It is very unfortunate this hammer did not get put into more guns. I personally prefer the "feel" of a long action over the the "fast" hammer. I hope to one day get to shoot a gun with a humpback to get the "feel" for it. Enjoy your beauty!
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:37 PM
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Wowser!! I am thrilled for you and sad for me. I watched this one for a while and the 1950 as well and couldn't pull the trigger. I don't believe anyone else pulled the trigger on these two either. After the factory that is. "They are both Marvelous". In closing, if you think they have been shot too many times, like the Non Lawyer thinks, I am certain someone could suffer to own these old rags. "CONGRATULATIONS ON A WELL MADE DECISION".
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:13 AM
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Thank you bigl1911 and RKmesa for sharing pictures of a few absolutely wonderful examples of the gunmaker's craft that will never be duplicated. I am pretty sure I will never see or touch one "in the wild," so this is my only chance to see and learn. Thanks again!

Jim
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:40 AM
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Thank you bigl1911 and RKmesa for sharing pictures of a few absolutely wonderful examples of the gunmaker's craft that will never be duplicated. I am pretty sure I will never see or touch one "in the wild," so this is my only chance to see and learn. Thanks again!

Jim
Hi Jim,

Thank you for your post. You are the reason why I went through the effort of posting these pictures and why other evolved and educated collectors have done the same with various posts.

I started collecting about 5 years ago. Many forum members helped educate and guide me and continue the support so I wouldn't make too many mistakes. It has been a wonderful learning experience. Funny as I write this not sure if I ever said thanks the community.

Thanks everyone for the years of support and guidance.

We keep the interest of collecting Smiths alive by communicating and sharing knowledge and experiences. The original post is needless to say a very costly rare example even at what I consider a great price well below retail. I try dodging this part of the discussion only because I don't want my posts to be interpreted as showing off what I can have when others cannot or look at my great buying skills.

Please know collecting can be much more than a hobby - it can also be an evolving investment. I never buy a firearm for profit; however when I do purchase it is done so carefully by not overspending more times then not. In others words, 90% of the time every purchase made is done so in a financially smart buy and I rely on a team of experts in my circle who on an ongoing basis advise me.

I mention this because for a few hundred dollars, good hunting and a little help and knowledge you can build a collection, have some great fun, meet terrific people and over time anyone could put a gun like these in their vault with attention and some hard work. What most miss is act kind, polite and respectful while showing grace and gratitude. The rest comes easy.

The is my last day at the Great Reno Gun Show. I picked up a few things one being another registered magnum (I posted in stealth a picture earlier of this gun). This one is a near complete package excellent gun condition about 95/97 bought at a very affordable number. Many of our forum members could have afforded this one in their budget. It sold yesterday, day before show opened at what I would consider half of retail. I will leave you with the task of figuring out a end user value, but needless to say it was a great buy I couldn't pass up.

Here is the funny part. There were a few dealers who saw the gun early on, They were trying to squeeze the seller before I saw the gun. I know this from talking with the seller. The seller knew what the gun is and wanted the gun to sell for cash and priced very low to move quickly and painlessly. The seller's priority was finding a great new home. The stone squeezing haggling dealers lost the gun over $500. I walked up inspected the gun, asked seller for best price, a numberwas given I said amazing great number and bought on the spot painlessly and made a new connection with a happy seller.

The other dealers were walking up to me throughout the day saying, "You bought that gun!!" stated in tone I know so well with the feeling on their end - sh-t I let a great deal get away!! I can't make this stuff up. The universe has a sense of humor and some keep doing the same thing over and over again!! Please note another poor quality IPhone shot..

Thanks again for your post.. RM pix - Note the Hump back hammer Sw lit and the original receipt for gun purchase in Los Angeles 1939.

Last edited by bigl1911; 08-24-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:53 AM
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[/QUOTE]



This RM looks like itís in what I consider the sweet zone condition-wise; nice enough to be considered collectible but not too nice to show off at the range now and then. Congratulations on another great addition to your collection! BTW, that box and its contents ainít too shabby either!
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:25 PM
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Spectacular, the Mona Lisa of handguns...that's one I would not fire. I used to say I did not own a firearm I will not shoot, I now own one that is basically "too nice" and rare enough to keep it "that nice" that it warrants me keeping it unfired by myself.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:32 PM
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Mark, youíre having a pretty good week. Pick up a lottery ticket this weekend. Fantastic guns. We Know: itís not about bragging. Itís about sharing our passion. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bigl1911 View Post
Hi Jim,

Thank you for your post. You are the reason why I went through the effort of posting these pictures and why other evolved and educated collectors have done the same with various posts.

I started collecting about 5 years ago. Many forum members helped educate and guide me and continue the support so I wouldn't make too many mistakes. It has been a wonderful learning experience. Funny as I write this not sure if I ever said thanks the community.

Thanks everyone for the years of support and guidance.

We keep the interest of collecting Smiths alive by communicating and sharing knowledge and experiences. The original post is needless to say a very costly rare example even at what I consider a great price well below retail. I try dodging this part of the discussion only because I don't want my posts to be interpreted as showing off what I can have when others cannot or look at my great buying skills.

Please know collecting can be much more than a hobby - it can also be an evolving investment. I never buy a firearm for profit; however when I do purchase it is done so carefully by not overspending more times then not. In others words, 90% of the time every purchase made is done so in a financially smart buy and I rely on a team of experts in my circle who on an ongoing basis advise me.

I mention this because for a few hundred dollars, good hunting and a little help and knowledge you can build a collection, have some great fun, meet terrific people and over time anyone could put a gun like these in their vault with attention and some hard work. What most miss is act kind, polite and respectful while showing grace and gratitude. The rest comes easy.

The is my last day at the Great Reno Gun Show. I picked up a few things one being another registered magnum (I posted in stealth a picture earlier of this gun). This one is a near complete package excellent gun condition about 95/97 bought at a very affordable number. Many of our forum members could have afforded this one in their budget. It sold yesterday, day before show opened at what I would consider half of retail. I will leave you with the task of figuring out a end user value, but needless to say it was a great buy I couldn't pass up.

Here is the funny part. There were a few dealers who saw the gun early on, They were trying to squeeze the seller before I saw the gun. I know this from talking with the seller. The seller knew what the gun is and wanted the gun to sell for cash and priced very low to move quickly and painlessly. The seller's priority was finding a great new home. The stone squeezing haggling dealers lost the gun over $500. I walked up inspected the gun, asked seller for best price, a numberwas given I said amazing great number and bought on the spot painlessly and made a new connection with a happy seller.

The other dealers were walking up to me throughout the day saying, "You bought that gun!!" stated in tone I know so well with the feeling on their end - sh-t I let a great deal get away!! I can't make this stuff up. The universe has a sense of humor and some keep doing the same thing over and over again!! Please note another poor quality IPhone shot..

Thanks again for your post.. RM pix - Note the Hump back hammer Sw lit and the original receipt for gun purchase in Los Angeles 1939.
Due to age and arthritis, I have probably attended my last "big" show (Phoenix and Prescott, AZ when we lived there) and will have to be content with small local shows and shops to do my "hunting." Once in a while, I run across something of interest, but nothing like yours and RKmesa's engraved beauties. I have managed to add an early 27 (nickel 5") and early 29 (nickel 6.5") and a few scarce old Marlins (my other weakness) locally and am happy with that. Oops...forgot about the Straight Line Target that popped up at a local farm auction, but being able to see and learn about examples like yours and read the backstories is priceless. This forum and its' members are the best...Thanks to all!

Last edited by millerj7; 08-25-2018 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:27 AM
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Terrific post.. Thank you... I love those targets!!


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Due to age and arthritis, I have probably attended my last "big" show (Phoenix and Prescott, AZ when we lived there) and will have to be content with small local shows and shops to do my "hunting." Once in a while, I run across something of interest, but nothing like yours and RKmesa's engraved beauties. I have managed to add an early 27 (nickel 5") and early 29 (nickel 6.5") and a few scarce old Marlins (my other weakness) locally and am happy with that. Oops...forgot about the Straight Line Target that popped up at a local farm auction, but being able to see and learn about examples like yours and read the backstories is priceless. This forum and its' members are the best...Thanks to all!
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:34 PM
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Wow, The Holy Grail of S & W!
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:35 PM
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I don't have any revolvers, but I am thinking about changing that.

What is in the tube?
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:39 AM
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My RM had been shot and I compared it at the range with both a 27-2, 5", a Perf.Ctr. 5" Model 27(8-shot) and a 6" Model 66. I fired 11 different loads, 2-strings each in a double blind test to measure groups and compare for accuracy. 8 of the loads were my hand-loads, 3 commercial loads.

Took my buddy and me 2 days to complete the shoot and measure the targets.....The RM shot the tightest group of all, with my favorite hand-load... 0.68" on 1 target: 0.75" on second target.. 5-shot groups at 25 yards. The Performance Center gun was terrific...under and inch...but shooting the RM is like a fine swiss watch...a gem...
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Indynick View Post
I don't have any revolvers, but I am thinking about changing that.

What is in the tube?
Smith and Wesson sent with the revolver with a registration card. When the owner sent the card back to factory, a tube was sent back return to customer with the Registered Magnum Certificate rolled inside the tube..
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:15 PM
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Very interesting and thanks for sharing!!

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Originally Posted by tjpopkin View Post
My RM had been shot and I compared it at the range with both a 27-2, 5", a Perf.Ctr. 5" Model 27(8-shot) and a 6" Model 66. I fired 11 different loads, 2-strings each in a double blind test to measure groups and compare for accuracy. 8 of the loads were my hand-loads, 3 commercial loads.

Took my buddy and me 2 days to complete the shoot and measure the targets.....The RM shot the tightest group of all, with my favorite hand-load... 0.68" on 1 target: 0.75" on second target.. 5-shot groups at 25 yards. The Performance Center gun was terrific...under and inch...but shooting the RM is like a fine swiss watch...a gem...
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Old 09-02-2018, 07:37 PM
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All it takes is money~
And tenacity, determination, knowledge and luck.
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:52 AM
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The question is do we get more out of the cars than an RM?

Depends on who you're dating while driving that car...
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Old 09-03-2018, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tjpopkin View Post
My RM had been shot and I compared it at the range with both a 27-2, 5", a Perf.Ctr. 5" Model 27(8-shot) and a 6" Model 66. I fired 11 different loads, 2-strings each in a double blind test to measure groups and compare for accuracy. 8 of the loads were my hand-loads, 3 commercial loads.

Took my buddy and me 2 days to complete the shoot and measure the targets.....The RM shot the tightest group of all, with my favorite hand-load... 0.68" on 1 target: 0.75" on second target.. 5-shot groups at 25 yards. The Performance Center gun was terrific...under and inch...but shooting the RM is like a fine swiss watch...a gem...

How'd the M-66 shoot? I'd think it'd be a real tack driver and lighter to carry than an N-frame .357.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:04 PM
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How'd the M-66 shoot? I'd think it'd be a real tack driver and lighter to carry than an N-frame .357.
s

The least accurate of the 3 guns, but not too bad.....1-2" groups@25yds.
Remember the N-frame is heavier and easier to shoot. All were from sandbag rests.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:23 PM
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bigl1911-You are a true gentleman by not trying to beat a man down.

Esp the seller of your most recent RM... He will remember you fondly always.

lt seems almost every buyer/seller out there has read ''The Art of The Deal''.

For this reason my gun shop, gun show purchases stand @ almost ZERO for the past 10-15 yrs

Virtually all my purchases come off the net... No more sellers trying to

Lowball and insult you face to face. Sure l miss a few 'deals'. l also miss

the lnsults of a lowballer.

Last edited by sw282; 09-04-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 09-04-2018, 01:43 PM
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Sw..

Thanks for the complement; however referring to the gentleman part I have two ex-wives that would disagree!

The art of the deal doesn't explain when you run someone over you have to live with yourself. Don't get me wrong, when you are at an Arab market you have to haggle, but we generally speaking don't live in the middle east.

For the most part I avoid the insults by avoiding insulting people. You and I think alike in this way. The one thing I learned for my X is we are only as valuable as our experts. My value is connected directly to my database of contacts be it business and friends. In this case my collector set of friends, trusted sellers and mentors. I've been off the forum for some time with my personal life.

The reason I am back and the reason I go into so much detail is based on all those within this group who have been there and offered help when needed. There are some really great people who support this group. Since my place is as a buyer, I don't see the sellers side of firearm or maybe more accurately not up to this point.

There are a few things we have control over in life. One for me on occasion I get to decide where I spend my money and with whom. Thanks for the post - L

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bigl1911-You are a true gentleman by not trying to beat a man down.

Esp the seller of your most recent RM... He will remember you fondly always.

lt seems almost every buyer/seller out there has read ''The Art of The Deal''.

For this reason my gun shop, gun show purchases stand @ almost ZERO for the past 10-15 yrs

Virtually all my purchases come off the net... No more sellers trying to

Lowball and insult you face to face. Sure l miss a few 'deals'. l also miss

the lnsults of a lowballer.

Last edited by bigl1911; 09-04-2018 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:44 PM
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There are a few things we have control over in life. One for me on occasion I get to decide where I spend my money and with whom...
Well said, and thanks for reminding me of that. Iíve seen more than one seller who had fine wares that I would have liked to own but their actions and attitude did not allow me to do business with them. Iíve not yet regretted walking away. Contrarily, Iíve paid a bit more than I might have, simply because the seller was a gentleman and he treated me like he believed I was, too.

Itís been an interesting thread. Thanks for sharing pictures and info of your beautiful revolvers.
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Old 09-04-2018, 05:53 PM
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Sw..

Thanks for the complement; however referring to the gentleman part I have two ex-wives that would disagree!
One or both of my exes (who SHOULD both live in Texas) might disagree. I don't believe in that "third time is the charm" baloney.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:29 PM
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Virtually all my purchases come off the net... No more sellers trying to

Lowball and insult you face to face. Sure l miss a few 'deals'. l also miss

the lnsults of a lowballer.
How do you get low-balled by a seller?
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:52 PM
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How do you get low-balled by a seller?
EASY-Ever seen a gun you like and want to 'Trade'? Seller says

your $100 gun is only worth $40. But his $100 gun is $150.

That's low-balling!!
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:14 PM
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Keith,

Sorry for the late response. Thanks for the post. I love your grips! Thanks for making these for me!!





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First off, what a beautiful RM, Iím glad that you have it and appreciate the rarity of an RM in unfired condition, Iíll go against the grain of some and say that there are some guns that deserve to not be shot. More pictures please ! As far as the stocks go they look pretty much untouched to me, darkened with age and a bit of handling but certainly not worn from use. Thanks for showing.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:50 PM
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More than likely you now own the best one most anyone has seen; unfired but at the factory only is so rare, rare, rare! Congratulations on pulling the trigger, don't know many who could.
Just last week, I fired my Grampa's RM #400 serial number and something I do each year on his birthday, just one round is all. May he rest in peace.

GC45
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:33 PM
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GC - Very nice post and fantastic story about your Grampa!. If you get a chance post a picture.. Thanks for sharing
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More than likely you now own the best one most anyone has seen; unfired but at the factory only is so rare, rare, rare! Congratulations on pulling the trigger, don't know many who could.
Just last week, I fired my Grampa's RM #400 serial number and something I do each year on his birthday, just one round is all. May he rest in peace.

GC45
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