Hello all, so I'm new here and have this 38 that has been around my family for a while. It was my deceased step dad's and have no idea where he got it. I've finally decided to do something with it but it has a severally cracked barrel and some significant marks on it. About the only thing historically I know about it is its from 1902 and S&W did not have a barrel for it. The only serial # I can find on it is 449. Thank you for this awesome forum and any help.

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The complete serial # is 4491 on the butt of the gun, I accidentally deleted that picture.

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! That appears to be a model 1899 and it would probably be a first-year gun. Others that track these guns more closely should be along soon to confirm that. Finding a barrel for it will be very difficult. But you never know.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Guy is right.

Where's the crack on the barrel, can you post a photo?

You will find a barrel, advertise on this forums classifieds section and set up searches for "Smith barrel" and "vintage gun parts smith" in eBay and Gunbroker where you may have to buy a parts kit meaning all the old parts of a gun w/o the frame. But usually doesn't cost more than the barrel alone.

Good hunting!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Welcome! This was the first K or medium frame S & W .38. The problem with finding a proper replacement barrel is all later K frames had a front locking point for the extractor rod (see the revolver photo at the top of the Forum home page). I suppose someone could mill the front lug off a later barrel however. Good luck in your search.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

If you can't find a proper barrel a later barrel can be fitted with slight modifications. The front sight needs to be profiled for the narrow 1902 rear sight and the underside filed some to clear the mushroom ejector rod tip.

Being that your revolver has been in your family for some time I'm sure it's not for sale so originality isn't a big issue and this would be a good way to put it back in shooting condition.

Sorry, I must have had a relapse of my cranial rectitus. You have a 1899 not a 1902 but in theory it should still work, just have the locking lug milled off.

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Yes, and just use his original extractor rod knob, no mushroom knob involved. But he'd need a post war barrel without notches for the mushroom or barrel knobs, to look right.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

It will be a bit of a gunsmithing job to fit a newer barrel correctly to your M1899 (as the underbarrel lug will need to be milled off), and it would need to be from a later M&P barrel without the barrel notch for the extractor rod knob (from 1948 or later, preferably pre-1953). You are very fortunate to have the extractor rod knob in place. It is not unusual for them to be missing, and replacements cannot be found. Yours almost certainly shipped sometime in 1900. Your grips are not original but factory hard rubber or replica black plastic grips of the correct style are not too difficult to find. The finish on what you have is not factory original. It looks to have been sandblasted and refinished. If you have a newer barrel attached, the same treatment should be followed on it.

Here is a picture of the crack in the barrel.

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That is what's called a forcing cone crack, and there is nothing you can do about repairing it. If you wanted to keep it as a non-firing display memento, the cracked barrel can easily be reinstalled. That might be your best option, as you can buy one of the later K-frames in equivalent condition that can be fired for $300 or less. You could easily spend that much on gunsmithing work to replace the barrel and refinishing.

Probably a stupid question but if the OP gets this back in working order, should that be used with black powder loads because of the age? They were using smokeless powder by 1900, right?

What about shortening the barrel from the forcing cone end, by turning and threading the shoulder area of the existing barrel, and cutting a new forcing cone ?

The current barrel would then be 1/4 to 3/8 shorter ?

Could be expensive though.

The earliest .38 Special factory loads were black powder, but smokeless powder .38 Special ammunition appeared within a year or so after introduction. Smokeless powder was used in the USA as early as 1894, available in most handgun calibers of that time. .38 Special BP loadings continued to be available until the mid-1930s, but I always wondered who would buy them and why they lasted that long. .38 Special BP loadings were ballistically about the same as smokeless powder loads, just a lot dirtier

Heck yeah, that's why I wanted to see the "crack". That barrel's not destroyed from what we can see!

Have the damage to the forcing cone "turned off" on a lathe, cut a new forcing cone, 'face off' the barrel shoulder an equal amount, turn in and clock the barrel with sight straight up at 12:00, re-drill a pin hole thru the holes in the frame, check and or adjust bar/cyl gap, and it's done!

No need for more threads, there's plenty left. This not going to be a competition gun with thousands of rounds in its future. But certainly safe to take out and shoot when you want. Might have to shorten the serial # pad for the extractor knob to clear on the front end a bit with a file and polish/cold blue touch up the spot.

A 30 - 45 minute job for a "real" gunsmith, not a "parts replacer". Have the cyl chambers checked for damage before having any work done; I'm trying to figure out how the barrel was damaged.

And it'll still be an all original gun like when your step dad knew it, with only a slighter short barrel.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim is right on find a real gunsmith/machinist and have the original barrel fixed and replaced !

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Randy

Y'all experts need to edumicate me on this here. My understanding is S&W didn't introduce forcing cones until the 1920's. And, why cain't that barrel end be weld-repaired?


Also, didn't S&W increase the diameter of the barrel end when they introduced the tapered barrel a few years after the OP's gun was made?

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

This is why I read the Forum every morning. Education. Thanks

Setting back the barrel is a great idea.
I recall an old gunzine article by the guy who shot a .44 Magnum so much that the forcing cone was eroded enough to affect velocity and accuracy. So he had it set back and kept shooting.

And the nice thing about it being a First is that your gunsmith won't have to worry about shortening the extractor rod to match.

There was a thread here showing Firsts that had been set up with various nonstandard or uncommon barrel lengths. I wonder if he set back the barrels or sawed them off.

Setting back the barrel will destroy the serial number and the rear of the address/patent date stamping. I am with Guy, why not weld the crack? Any later barrel, in order to get the correct look, would have to be turned to match the shape of the 1899 barrel, plus it would reduce value in my mind. Get to a restorative welding expert to see if that is an option. That way you would retain original parts and make it what it was when the gun left the factory.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Guy,

Edumicate you? You're edumicating us!

You're right on both counts; no forcing cone yet and it still has the smaller thread diameter.

Tig welding just might be the better solution as well.

Glenn Fewless in Waterford, WI, (262) 534-5154. He's a metalsmith and member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild: ACGG | Glenn Fewless: ACGG | Glenn Fewless

Micro-welding - Wicked Welding
5703 Webster St suite j, Dayton, OH 45414
Phone: (937) 454-9023

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thank you everyone! I spoke with my mom and she could not remember any history except she thinks my step dad got it from another family member. I plan to hit up a gunsmith soon and will update everyone what they say. Also any idea in the range of value for this?

In that condition, its value would be more for its parts, especially the extractor rod knob. Maybe $200-$300. A high condition original 1899 would be worth considerably more.

Went to a reputable gunsmith today and he was not to optimistic at first. But after talking with him about what I've learned here he agreed he could do the work but it would not be cheap for the current value of the gun.

Which way did he intend to fix it that was not cheap?

Do you have another local smith to get another price?

If you don't plan to shoot it since it's an heirloom, just have him peen the crack back into aligment and mount the barrel. Although it will shoot fine as is, just don't have anyone stand to the side of the gun with the crack. And they should be wearing safety glasses anyway.

I've seen guns fired with a cracked barrel like yours for years and the owners not even know it.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Took it to another gun smith snd he recommended just cutting the bad spot off the barrel and rethreading it. He knew exactly what I had and was pretty confident in his work. His opinion was if this is something I want to be able to shoot and not spend to much money that would be the way to go.

Did you ask him what he thought about tig welding the crack to avoid the ramifications of cutting off the barrel; i.e., cutting off the part of the address and having to shorten the extraction rod?

Tig welding may be too cutting edge for some gunsmiths not familiar with this approach.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Don't hurry your decision. Ask for another 1899 barrel here in the WTB section. Also, if you ultimately cannot find a welder, consider just buying a barrel on eBay. Barrel length is not that important and there are many barrels for sale on that website all the time. Just put "38 Wesson barrel" in their search engine and look for half-moon front sights. The smith can easily cut off the lug and install the barrel so you to shoot the gun. Even a 38 Victory barrel will work OK as well, bore is a little bigger, but will still poke holes in paper. That way, you can keep the original barrel intact with the gun. Please don't cut it!

Here is the problem you are coming up against. A good gunsmith can weld the crack, but most will not do it because of perceived liability issues.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I talked to two more gunsmiths one in person and one on the phone. The gentleman in person was not set up to weld and the gunsmith via phone was willing to help find me a barrel but not repair it.