I have this 1919 Billy-Club Extension, which was designed for the k frame Smith and Wesson revolver. The club part has a bore running through it, so the revolver can be fired while it's attached. I realize it is somewhat rare, and would invite any thoughts on value. Thanks in advance. (photo on weapon is for description only, gun not for sale.) A few other photos, but 5 is the max. I can load at one time.

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Now that is a collector deal for sure. I would think it is somewhat unwieldy. Perp could wrestle you handgun away. Still cool piece

That is about the damndest thing I have ever seen, and I mean that in a good way !

I have never seen or heard of anything like that. I cannot imagine what its purpose might have been. Who would want to carry a revolver with that thing attached to it? It would probably be very desirable to a collector of police hardware.

I can't tell by looking at the photos...is the billy club's bore rifled?

It's pretty interesting. Only possible practical use I could see for it would be in some sort of riot or melee situation. Not too sure about that, either, because if you started hitting people it might tend to knock the barrel or front sight out of alignment.

It doesn't look like something that saw a huge production run, no matter who made it. More questions about it than answers.

As dumb an idea as that is, those outghta be rarer than whale ****.

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Eccentric old coot

Never saw anything like that that was a 'production' piece.
I am open to learn more if there is more to be learned.
Is it rifled?
And, yes,...... welcome to the forum from Pennsylvania.

That just has to be a very rare accessory. I suspect that more than a few high-end collectors would love to have that piece to add to their displays. Establishing a market value is likely to be difficult, certainly lots of research and documentation involved.

Fortunately you are on the site that attracts S&W collectors, possibly even a few who could have some useful knowledge.

Are you sure that's not actually a suppressor?

Looks to be well made, even if useless. I think oink may be right could it be a suppressor?
Walt

I hate to be a nit-picker, but the model 15 didn't exist in 1919. That item is probably one of those products of the good idea fairy until practicality tanked the idea.

All that said, there's probably some one somewhere that would love to have it.

Collected Antiques of law and order for nearly 50 years have seen lots of nightsticks , slappers, tear gas Billy's and other impact devices but never ran on to one of those.
Probably best to let the market set the value by running it on an auction site.

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LEX ET ORDO

I'd think if the idea was for it to have been used as a billy club while attached to the revolver barrel, it would probably have resulted in a bent barrel the first time it was used. Something that unusual has to be rare and worthy of more investigation. Searching patent records of that time might provide more information. I am certain the tube down the middle would not have been rifled and that the device was not intended to be a suppressor. In 1919 silencers (suppressors) were entirely legal for anyone to have and use but they really didn't work very well on revolvers.

I've been to two worlds fairs and a goat roping and I've never seen anything like that.

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Bill

Amazingly turned up this:

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Possum—The other white meat!

Welcome to the forum.

I'm convinced there's no way it was meant to use as a billy on the gun. With all the leverage it would bend the barrel the very 1st time used. Barrels bend easy enough when used as billys.

Have you shot with it and if so was there any noise suppression?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Mr. Supica seems to indicate in the video it’s use was as a club. But I agree 100%, it sure seems it would act as weight to bend a barrel.

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Possum—The other white meat!

If it is rifled, maybe the intent was to use it to extend the barrel to make a pseudo carbine or Buntline Special.

My guess would be that it would be used either as a club or for longer shots where a long barrel would be better perhaps ? Did they make an attachment to use a shoulder stock on model 10's ?

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

Welcome to the Forum. Is it rifled? Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

It is clear to me that the wooden part is a handle for when you use the revolver's butt to nail up wanted posters.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Found a couple more mentions of it.

Shooting The Billy Club Revolver | Range365

Strange Guns: S&W Model 10 Police Revolver with Billy-Club Extension | Range365

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

Looks like a pretty nice billy, as long as you don't do something stupid like putting it on a gun.

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Formerly Model520Fan

What could possibly go wrong?

I think we should give Gene some sort of award for the strangest first post ever!

The way it sat on the 4 inch barrel, it looks like it was designed for a 6 inch barrel. I'd like to see someone try it on a 6 inch Heavy Duty! Of course, it's still a bad idea.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

We have a winner!

Maybe a super powered horse wormer. Anyway, welcome to the forum.

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Just a shooter

I like the sight channel.

Companies make stupid products all the time. The fact that they are rare indicates evolution still works.

If it were rifled wouldn't the rifling have to line up with the gun barrel rifling? Just curious.
Walt

Looking through the "bore" I see no rifling at all. Smooth as a baby's bottom!

Looks like most of the OP's research work has been done for him! Excellent responses with history, inventor, additional sources of information, even some practical testing done.

Will it handle +P?

While I admit it's pretty darned cool it looks like something a couple of LEOs thought up after a long, hard night of heavy drinking.

Ignoring whether this device is practical--which requires considerable ignoring--I would be concerned that wrapping a miscreant hard enough to get their attention would put excessive strain both on the attachment point and where the barrel is screwed into the frame. Before I purchased one, I would want the manufacturer to guarantee a minimum number of bludgeonings before product failure or damage to the revolver.

Looks to me like it could be used to conceal muzzle flash when shooting at night, although there would still be some flash around the barrel/cylinder gap.
Looks worse than worthless as an impact weapon to me.
Would probably bend the pistol barrel with even a moderately powered whack on somebody with the club.

Maybe during a hard night of heavy drinking.

I MUST AGREE WITH DWalt's STATEMENT IN IT ITS ENTIRETY......

PUTTING TOGETHER A PACKAGE OF VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTATION TO ACCOMPANY THIS OBVIOUSLY RARE ITEM, WOULD BE KEY IN ATTRACTING A COLLECTOR, AND/OR REALIZING ITS MAXIMUM VALUE AT AUCTION.........

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

OP - What kind of blue tool holders/organizers do you have on your loading bench?

Had television been around back then it would have made an interesting infomercial.

Interesting device, but highly impractical imo. Also, neither the original post nor Mr. Supica's video described HOW the club attaches to the barrel . Is it made like a collet to clamp around the barrel? Is there a relief cut for the front sight? I don't suppose the muzzle would be threaded to attach the club, as that would add much more cost to attach the device.

And one wonders if that club was also made for Colt DA revolvers. Their ejector rods ere not protected like S&W's and can often be found slightly bent, even if never used to hit an offender on the head!

It seems to me that the device was held onto the barrel by the front sight, somewhat like the socket bayonets of Civil War rifled muskets were retained by the front sight of the barrel. I would think that it had to be made to fit specifically either Colt or S&W revolvers and they were not likely to have the same barrel OD. In 1919, I believe there were considerably more Colts than S&Ws in police service.

Hey, I have a thought for you. The club is a multi use tool, it can be used as a normal club, but it has a secondary use. It's not used as a club on the weapon, it is a projectile weapon, an early version of the beanbag round. Yes if it didn't have a .38 hole through the middle it could shoot further, maybe 100 yards or more, but that would be too much. It doesn't have an attachment point to the barrel, it isn't a suppressor or flash hider. It is used with blank ammunition -flies through the air and hits someone-hard. I had an uncle who was a cop way back when, and they did stuff, regulations weren't so strict. Maybe it was a product sold, or it may have been produced in house, so to speak. Just my opinion, I have no documentation, only intuition, Thanks.

It does have an attachment point to the barrel. The knurled collar turns and locks behind the front sight.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

It certainly would be both unwieldy and dangerous to use as an extension on the barrel in a brawl or physical confrontation. The pistol might discharge. Certainly would incapacitate using the pistol at close quarters.

If there is a patent NUMBER along with the date, it might be fairly easy to look up the patent info, which would describe the purpose of the invention. I do not think it was intended to be used as a projectile, like a dummy (rifle) grenade.

I don’t believe it was meant to be used as an impact weapon when attached. Looking at the patent paperwork, Mr. Moor first designed a barrel extension. Putting it in a billy club came later.
My SWAG is you carried the billy club as just that, a billy club. With that steel lining, it would be a bone crusher.
If one wanted to use it as a barrel extension, one could.
I just can’t figure out why anyone needed a barrel extension in the first place.

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and what his trumpet saith

Here's a link to the patent:

https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US1297891.pdf

That link produces a warning message, but I consider it safe to proceed. The patent data base is a Google service, and you are unlikely to get a malware blast from any of their enterprises.

I think the inventor, E.N. Moor, had a basic purpose in mind of lengthening the sight radius to make long shots with a handgun more achievable. His wood-shrouded barrel extension could, by itself, be used as a billy club. Though he is silent on the point, I see no evidence in the patent language that he intended the device to be used as a club while attached to a revolver barrel.

As reported in one of the links above, this device fits a Colt revolver, but not a S&W -- certainly not a S&W with a four inch barrel.


EDITED TO ADD: I didn't realize when I posted this that the truncheon/barrel combination was the subject of a separate patent. Please see post 54 in this thread.

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David Wilson

Is this better?

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Formerly Model520Fan

"I think the inventor, E.N. Moor, had a basic purpose in mind of lengthening the sight radius to make long shots with a handgun more achievable."

That is more or less the principal purpose explained and claimed in the patent, as there is no mention of the billy club. It is purely a method to achieve a longer sight radius for greater accuracy. So you carried the billy club for its normal purpose, and if you needed more accuracy, you attached the billy to the revolver barrel. But I guess the inventor must have forgotten about the need for a front sight as none is apparent from the picture of the billy. Even so, it seems to be a terrible idea with no real accuracy improvements to be gained.

I am thinking about drilling a hole in mine.

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