Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-02-2018, 08:59 PM
paplinker paplinker is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: pa
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 1,191
Liked 1,635 Times in 514 Posts
Default Pair of 38/44 Superkings

I just recently became the new caretaker of this great Super King Target. I was very excited to get this gun as it has a few differences from my other one that I am very fond of.





It shipped directly to King gun sight company as a Heavy Duty in March of 1938. Also it shipped as a 6 1/2 inch bbl. It also has numbers matching magnas. I found it interesting they did not convert a OD. Maybe the customer wanted a smooth back strap. I intend to ask for a invoice check to see if maybe it will shed some light on that. I am in contact with a relative of the original owner.











The smooth back strap ,cockeyed hammer and red post sight are for the most part the only differences I have noticed so far.

I am very much looking forward to shooting this one as it does have some freckling on the backstrap area.
__________________
Rich
SWCA 2523

Last edited by paplinker; 09-02-2018 at 09:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 75 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:34 PM
Kinman's Avatar
Kinman Kinman is online now
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 1,924
Likes: 4,101
Liked 2,123 Times in 874 Posts
Default

May I be the first to credit your good taste. That sort of quality is certainly a thing of the past. Did King work the triggers over while doing the revamp?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:42 PM
paplinker paplinker is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: pa
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 1,191
Liked 1,635 Times in 514 Posts
Default

I have not shot either gun yet but it seems the cockeyed hammer gun is very smooth. Both are long action.
__________________
Rich
SWCA 2523
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:47 PM
usm1rifle's Avatar
usm1rifle usm1rifle is online now
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Twin Cities
Posts: 2,028
Likes: 2,746
Liked 1,459 Times in 563 Posts
Default

That's quite a pair! Very nice.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 09-02-2018, 10:21 PM
rct269 rct269 is online now
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pikeville, Tennessee
Posts: 2,930
Likes: 160
Liked 3,362 Times in 1,422 Posts
Default

As you likely know, King sold Super Target conversions from inventory, as well as converting customers' guns. The selection by King of a heavy duty instead of an OD to convert for inventory (assuming that's the case) is very likely due to the cost differential between the two guns. (The effort/cost to perform the conversion on either gun being essentially the same (not counting the slight head start provided by S&W on the OD).)

The Super Target option was a free standing item (rib and sights). Other options included short actions, cockeyed hammers, "honed" actions, "adjusting" trigger pulls, "balancing" mainsprings, etc,----pretty much whatever you wanted. The retail price of a King Super Target 38/44 was $61 (in 1939). I don't know how that compared to a stock 38/44 plus $20 for the installation of the rib/sights.

The bottom line is you could have pretty much anything you wanted from the pistolsmith's bag of tricks from King.

Ralph Tremaine

Last edited by rct269; 09-02-2018 at 10:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 09-02-2018, 10:31 PM
paplinker paplinker is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: pa
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 1,191
Liked 1,635 Times in 514 Posts
Default

Ralph,
Do you think a OD has to be milled on top or is the width of the factory sight groove wide enough to accommodate a rib? Seems using a OD would be less risky of error. Maybe eliminate all milling on the back half of the gun.
__________________
Rich
SWCA 2523
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-02-2018, 11:43 PM
rct269 rct269 is online now
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pikeville, Tennessee
Posts: 2,930
Likes: 160
Liked 3,362 Times in 1,422 Posts
Default

I know the OD has to be milled!! The channel cut in the top strap is HUGE (compared to that for a S&W target sight)--and the notch at the rear of the frame is likewise larger.

My limited exposure to King Super Targets (one gun) suggests there was no risk of error----other than failing to secure the gun in its jig (which would likely get you a sound thump on the head, and a demotion back to grinding off hammer spurs for cockeyed hammer conversions).

The first thing I did when I got mine home was to take it all apart to see what the big deal was. The only visible big deal was the milling (likely jigged off the bore) which just barely touched the barrel on either side of the front sight boss (nee stock front sight) to ensure the finished height at the front would be just so. (Other than that, nothing special/no surprises----unless you count installing the cylinder stop plunger spring in the sight (where it worked fine), and sticking the sight spring on the cylinder stop plunger (where it didn't work at all).

Ralph Tremaine
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 09-03-2018, 08:17 AM
1blindref's Avatar
1blindref 1blindref is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Se Pa
Posts: 2,177
Likes: 1,908
Liked 5,078 Times in 773 Posts
Default

Two fantastic guns Rich and I'm happy you were able to put them together. I can't tell you how much I appreciated seeing them in person. Congrats!!
__________________
Rick
SWCA #2727 , SWHF #435
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 09-03-2018, 09:11 AM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,828
Likes: 5,847
Liked 3,079 Times in 1,168 Posts
Default

They are both magnificent. The pre-war .38-44 Outdoorsman is one of my favorite S&W models, not only as a magnificent and accurate shooter (as they are) but with the elegance and grace of that pre-war era. Being "Kings" is just another layer of icing on the cake.

You're becoming a contender for the S&WCA's successor to, and candidate for, the "Gary Garbrecht / Ray Cheeley" Award for most quality outstanding (big dollar and unique) S&Ws discovered and owned.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 09-03-2018 at 09:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-03-2018, 09:38 AM
weatherby's Avatar
weatherby weatherby is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Western ,Ma.
Posts: 4,602
Likes: 9,438
Liked 8,155 Times in 2,249 Posts
Wink

You suck,I hate you,and we're not talking anymore. There I'm done venting.
You adding Ropers ?
__________________
Paul
S&WCA #2726
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:20 AM
paplinker paplinker is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: pa
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 1,191
Liked 1,635 Times in 514 Posts
Default

Paul,
I am definitely on the hunt to pair this gun up with some Ropers.
To me these King guns almost demand it.

Since I will be shooting this one I actually need a set as factory targets are a bit too wide in my hand.
__________________
Rich
SWCA 2523
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 09-03-2018, 10:30 AM
weatherby's Avatar
weatherby weatherby is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Western ,Ma.
Posts: 4,602
Likes: 9,438
Liked 8,155 Times in 2,249 Posts
Wink

You could always just whittle them down. I
Attached Thumbnails
Pair of 38/44 Superkings-img_20170409_110232-jpg  
__________________
Paul
S&WCA #2726
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 09-06-2018, 10:35 PM
LOBO's Avatar
LOBO LOBO is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 1,017
Liked 1,738 Times in 419 Posts
Default

Beautiful!! Congrats
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-07-2018, 03:09 PM
RKmesa's Avatar
RKmesa RKmesa is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 4,334
Likes: 10,811
Liked 19,946 Times in 2,217 Posts
Default

Way way high on the cool meter.
__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Last edited by RKmesa; 09-07-2018 at 04:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 09-07-2018, 06:33 PM
kennethg kennethg is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern California
Posts: 498
Likes: 613
Liked 326 Times in 103 Posts
Default

Very nice pair.
__________________
Ken
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-07-2018, 10:09 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 4,824
Likes: 5,897
Liked 4,299 Times in 1,954 Posts
Default

It appears to me that there is an additional difference - one has a "U" notch in the rear sight. I think that's the one you had first ...
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-07-2018, 11:02 PM
Bobbysixkiller's Avatar
Bobbysixkiller Bobbysixkiller is offline
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rural NW Oklahoma
Posts: 826
Likes: 759
Liked 1,001 Times in 290 Posts
Default

Those roper stocks are beautiful.
__________________
Bobby
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-08-2018, 03:49 PM
diecidecimi's Avatar
diecidecimi diecidecimi is offline
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 131
Likes: 31
Liked 138 Times in 61 Posts
Default

I apologize if my question is silly: am I wrong , or something is strange about the matching of the diamond magna stocks on the backstrap?
Another question: please, educate me: was the factory backstrap serrated on Heavy Duty/Outdoorsman?

After my questions, I must congratulate with paplinker: two wonderful sisters! I love these old sixguns, with their aftermarket accessories, typical of the American revolvers golden era. Here they never were imported, I can only eyeball them!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-08-2018, 09:26 PM
rct269 rct269 is online now
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pikeville, Tennessee
Posts: 2,930
Likes: 160
Liked 3,362 Times in 1,422 Posts
Default

Grooved grip straps: Outdoorsman, yes---front and rear. Heavy Duty, don't know, but deemed unlikely.

I recall neither the point in time nor the reference, but it seems to me all hand ejector targets were grooved starting at such and such date. You likely could find the specifics in the listing of engineering changes shown in N&J. In my collection, M&P Target # 404219, shipped September 9, 1922 has smooth straps--------next closest #594161 (also M&P Target), shipped August 23, 1928 has grooved straps.

Ralph Tremaine

And to narrow it down a bit further, this from S&W's 1925 catalog---under the heading "GROOVED TANGS": "A loose but non-slipping grasp is essential for good shooting, and for many years sharply checked front and rear tangs were considered necessary. Such a checking eliminates slipping but its file-like action on the hand when the recoil takes place makes the hands sore. The grooved tang eliminates slipping even when the grip is very light, and does not make the hand tender."

Last edited by rct269; 09-08-2018 at 10:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-09-2018, 12:26 PM
Collects's Avatar
Collects Collects is offline
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,053
Likes: 8,597
Liked 2,126 Times in 969 Posts
Default

Nice Roper stocks!
__________________
A lawyer, but NOT YOUR LAWYER.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:10 AM
Roofuss Roofuss is offline
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 43
Likes: 84
Liked 31 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Very, very nice !!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-23-2018, 01:38 PM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,785
Likes: 133
Liked 3,204 Times in 737 Posts
Default

Ralph

Up earlier in this thread, you talked about examining a King revolver, and made the following comment:

Quote:
(Other than that, nothing special/no surprises----unless you count installing the cylinder stop plunger spring in the sight (where it worked fine), and sticking the sight spring on the cylinder stop plunger (where it didn't work at all).
What 'sight' are you referring to, and what 'sight spring' are you referring to ? Does the King rear sight assembly have some sort of coil spring in it ? The cylinder stop plunger spring, presumably, is not related to the King Super Target rib, is it ?

Regards, Mike Priwer
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-23-2018, 02:54 PM
Kinman's Avatar
Kinman Kinman is online now
Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spokantucky
Posts: 1,924
Likes: 4,101
Liked 2,123 Times in 874 Posts
Default

I had a King converted 38/44, it only had the front and rear sights. My eyes require me to adjust the rear sight further to the right than normal, I ran out of adjustment and during disassembly of the rear sight found a coil spring. I did some adjustment with a different length screw and length adjustment of another coil spring and got the adjustment I needed. As I recall the spring was installed, then the blade, with the adjustment screw holding everything under tension.
These Super Kings are truly magnificent revolvers.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 10-10-2018, 09:49 PM
RKmesa's Avatar
RKmesa RKmesa is offline
SWCA Member
Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings Pair of 38/44 Superkings  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 4,334
Likes: 10,811
Liked 19,946 Times in 2,217 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by rct269 View Post
...My limited exposure to King Super Targets (one gun) suggests there was no risk of error----other than failing to secure the gun in its jig (which would likely get you a sound thump on the head, and a demotion back to grinding off hammer spurs for cockeyed hammer conversions).

The first thing I did when I got mine home was to take it all apart to see what the big deal was. The only visible big deal was the milling (likely jigged off the bore) which just barely touched the barrel on either side of the front sight boss (nee stock front sight) to ensure the finished height at the front would be just so. (Other than that, nothing special/no surprises----unless you count installing the cylinder stop plunger spring in the sight (where it worked fine), and sticking the sight spring on the cylinder stop plunger (where it didn't work at all).





Ralph Tremaine

I inserted the photos of Ralph's TL KST in the above to throw this great thread to the top.

A link to Ralph's thread on the gun is here:

A KING SUPER TARGET
__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4 PAIR LEFT! ADDING BETTER PICS An even dozen pair of grips for sale Pontiaker Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 17 01-26-2012 02:01 PM
WTS- 1 Pair J Frame Banana Grips, ALL SOLD! 1 Pair RB J frame Checkered amvet Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 4 07-03-2010 01:11 PM
WTS: 2 pair of N/Rd & 2 pair of N/Sq Grips**New Pic's** bluegrassstate Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 12 03-03-2010 02:35 PM
SPF: Two pair of S&W 100 Handcuffs, new in box, $40 shipped fro both pair !!! shooboy Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 01-20-2010 04:49 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:35 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)