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Old 09-08-2018, 06:23 PM
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Default Can factory rework increase value?

Typically we figure a factory star decreases value, but is there a scenario where a factory star would increase value? In my particular case, I'm thinking of my 1917 that was reworked into a nickel 45 Colt.

Factory Nickel 1917 in 45 Colt...





I'm thinking of moving this along to make room for other stuff as I think the uniqueness outweighs the shooter value for me but I have no idea how to value it. It's been factory reworked, but the pre-war factory nickel 45 Colt's seem to be as common as hen's teeth.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:39 PM
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The simple answer is no. A gun that's been refinished is not in its original condition and is immediately devalued. Also the condition of that gun makes it a shooter grade and a low-value shooter grade at that. I put it in the $500 at best category.

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Old 09-08-2018, 06:57 PM
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There's a saying in this avocation of ours---goes like this: Buy the gun, not the story. I reckon, or at least hope, enough folks have heard and understand this saying that you're going to have a tough time overcoming the impression this unfortunate example of gun abuse makes on most anybody who sees it.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:01 PM
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Good example of a gun being used as the tool it was designed to be. It apparently had a rough life and is entitled to retire... any factory service should trump non factory service and having proof surely helps.
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:08 PM
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The conversion to 45 Colt doesn’t hurt the gun’s value since it was done by the factory and not the usual anonymous gunsmith or some Bubba.

The refinish is another matter: because the condition of the nickel is so rough, it hurts value. To me, it would be worth more with the original finish even if the original finish was as rough as the nickel refinish.

Overall, $500 seems reasonable assuming it’s mechanically sound.

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Old 09-08-2018, 07:23 PM
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I would think it would have to be very mechanically excellent to garner $500, if so it might make a fun shooter.
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:19 PM
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The gun may be worth more as parts than it is as a whole gun. I don't discredit factory work as much as most but that's me. Many feel that a gun is only original once and any rework is considered a negative.

If you had two identical guns and one was reworked and one was not, which one would you consider better??

Personally, I would not pay $500 for that gun based on condition and would only be interested at about $300.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:02 PM
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Basically works like this, IMHO:

All original with condition, first and foremost; then original with lack of condition;

Then factory refinish/rework with condition. Used to be much less desirable than all original, but these days, factory work with condition can be valued pretty darn close to original, depending on the model. Followed by factory work with no appreciable condition, like this gun.

Least desirable, and sometimes not desirable at all are your refinished/reworked/Bubbaed guns. On some occasions, determining this can be tricky. The work of Charles Duffee on some of the antique stuff is so good it can be difficult to differentiate from original. Some may value the quality of his work, and some other master craftsmen near to that of a factory refinish.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:27 PM
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"Collectors" can collect anything. I'd suggest that the largest group of S&W collectors, wants factory original, non-altered.
Yet, Military collectors, Police collectors, guns with a history, collectors of target guns of an earlier era may feel differently.
The size of each collector's pool determines your market. You'd need to market toward the group the your factory custom fits into.
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:11 PM
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I would say yes and no. If the S&WHF can provide documentation of the rework then you may have the name and location of the individual or agency that had the firearm at that time. Then the story becomes history. Fly Navy.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:54 PM
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I would say it depends on the gun.who bought it, who ordered the refinish and why. Most of the time,no. But in rare cases a gun that has been refinished can bring more ( usually when a high profile company buys and redoes the gun to their specs. Think Wells Fargo ).
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Old 09-09-2018, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLOYD17 View Post
Typically we figure a factory star decreases value, but is there a scenario where a factory star would increase value?
Yes.

There is a scenario, and youíve got one.

Not in the sense that it is preferable or valued more than original and in good condition, but in the sense that for a refinished gun with a lot of ďcharacterĒ, that letter is the saving grace, so to speak.

As was said, it will only appeal to real historical collectors, not the investor types, but if you are patient and prominently show the letter in Gunbroker or similar postings, it will definitely help and may even sell the gun.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:41 AM
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The last paragraph of the OP's letter notes the repair history. Is this information going to be included on all letters or is the letter on a factory repaired revolver still going to have to be submitted to the S&WHF to be researched?
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Old 09-09-2018, 10:54 AM
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The last paragraph of the OP's letter notes the repair history. Is this information going to be included on all letters or is the letter on a factory repaired revolver still going to have to be submitted to the S&WHF to be researched?
Yes, the letter had the info included and a submission to the SWHF came up with the rest of the docs. The original thread linked has all the information that I didnít take the time copying and pasting.

In re-characterizing my original question, Iím really wondering if a later factory mod can actually increase value over an otherwise same condition model not modified. In this case, a 45 Colt vs the original 45 ACP. Another example is a TL that gets sent back (before the war) to have target sights added. Does this modified, but factory done, target TL have more value than an identical fixed sight model?

I get some are 100% stuck on absolute originality. My opinion is Iíd pay more for a TL with factory added pre war sights than a fixed sight model all else being equal. But Iím also a shooter and not a collector (or I guess you could say I collect guns to be shot).
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:11 AM
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But Iím also a shooter and not a collector (or I guess you could say I collect guns to be shot).
Me too. I'd rather have a Victory with honest wear than a NIB that lives it's life in the safe. Wish there was a way to find out how many OK 3 wires my Navy contract revolvers logged. Thanks for your service, sir. FLY NAVY.
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:15 AM
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Knowing the work was done by the factory is definitely makes the gun more valuable than wondering if the work was done by some random gunsmith. I don't think the work makes the gun worth much if any more than factory original. Maybe $50 more at best due to its uniqueness.

Values vary $50 to $100 all the time, every day. Due to the condition that gun is worth some where around $400 to $500. Maybe it'd go for $600 at an auction with a couple bidders fighting against one another, or maybe it go for $350 at an auction with poor turn out. What I'm getting at is that trying pin an extract value of something like that is difficult and highly dependent on the venue where it's being sold and how many interested parties are there. I've seen the exact same gun go for more than a $100 difference just depending on when a gun is sold in an auction.
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:15 AM
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Your question doesnít appear to have a ďcorrectĒ answer because value decisions always rest ultimately with the buyer. Obviously, a true collector always favors originality and condition. Unless you came across a gun that was special-ordered and made for a notable person, then I donít see factory work that deviates from a standard model as ever adding value - to a collector.

In your case, you seem to be addressing buyers who are not strictly collectors - and that brings many variables into the picture. I would not be a buyer for that gun at $500, but I would not criticize someone who was. Itís an interesting old gun and if its history happens to appeal, then as a buyer you might feel good about buying that gun at a higher price than I would. To me, itís a neat old gun at $250 or so, so yes, in this case, ďBuy the gun, not the story,Ē applies. JMHO
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Old 09-09-2018, 01:22 PM
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I can't comment on value, but I am wondering why some of you say "don't buy the story"? To me, a story is undocumented, but the conversion of this revolver to 45 Colt, the change of finish to nickel, and the new stocks are documented in the factory records, so it is not a story, it is fact.

Bill
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Old 09-09-2018, 01:35 PM
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I can't comment on value, but I am wondering why some of you say "don't buy the story"? To me, a story is undocumented, but the conversion of this revolver to 45 Colt, the change of finish to nickel, and the new stocks are documented in the factory records, so it is not a story, it is fact.

Bill
I couldn't agree more! "buy the gun, not the story" reflects guns that come with verbal stories that can't be documented. But this gun's provenance is fully documented, so it's not a story, but the facts.
I still agree with guesses on the gun's value, just not with "the story" terminology.
This gun may have slightly more value in Norton, Va. if you can get provenance of the owner, and he has some significant history that made him well known there. I'd consider contacting the Wise County PD prior to selling it, and see if you can gain more provenance on the owner who had it reworked. It may prove to enhance the gun's appeal.

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Old 09-09-2018, 02:37 PM
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There has always been a bit of mutual tension between investors who are obsessed with value, appreciation, and condition on the one hand, and true historical collectors on the other hand who see guns as historical artefacts and are generally less interested in condition, but primarily in the documented, verifiable story, or better history.

To be sure, there are people who bridge both categories and combine knowledge and money, so no offense intended to anyone specific.

As was said above, ďbuy the gun, not the storyĒ may apply to unverifiable BS told by sellers to help sell a gun. On a lot of guns, the story is what sells the gun. That is the reason why some collectors pay a few thousand dollars extra for a 500-dollar Walther PP because it has a (hopefully genuine) stamping of a Nazi agency on the slide or grip frame. The story just happens to be stamped on the gun.

But a gun like the OPís, with a less than perfect refinish but a very interesting letter, is definitely a case for true collectors, not investors. The looks make it unattractive to condition Nazis. But the story is first-rate documented history.
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:47 PM
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I think it's worth more than if it was unmodified in the same condition. Note the word "same." 45 Colt is a desirable caliber, and beat to hell 1917s in 45acp aren't that hard to come by, so I'd be confident it's worth at least as much if not a bit more than if it was unmodified.The factory documentation is a bonus.
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Old 09-09-2018, 03:21 PM
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There's a saying in this avocation of ours---goes like this: Buy the gun, not the story. I reckon, or at least hope, enough folks have heard and understand this saying that you're going to have a tough time overcoming the impression this unfortunate example of gun abuse makes on most anybody who sees it.

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YOU ARE ON THE MONEY ON ALL COUNTS, RALPH.......

I OFTEN CAUTION NEWBIES ABOUT BUYING THE STORY.....

ANOTHER ADAGE THAT IS UNIVERSALLY APPLICABLE, FAR BEYOND OUR HOBBY, IS THAT "YOU CAN'T MAKE CHICKEN SALAD OUT OF CHICKEN MANURE". IN THE INTEREST OF COMPLIANCE WITH FORUM RULES, I REFRAINED FROM USING THE 4 LETTER "S" WORD, THAT COMMONLY FINISHES THE SENTENCE.....

WITHOUT BEING RUDE, IMHO--THE REVOLVER IN QUESTION WILL NEVER BE PERCEIVED AS CHICKEN SALAD---STAR OR NOT......
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:08 PM
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I can't comment on value, but I am wondering why some of you say "don't buy the story"? To me, a story is undocumented, but the conversion of this revolver to 45 Colt, the change of finish to nickel, and the new stocks are documented in the factory records, so it is not a story, it is fact.

Bill
AND, it is documented as being shipped to a far Southwest Virginia police department, not all that far from where I live. I've been to Norton, Virginia several times and a friend of mine worked in Wise County for a number of years.

While I also ooh and aah over NIB firearms, the OP's 1917 was used in an area I know and was factory modified for a LEO, in a caliber that I enjoy shooting. I find that to be a very interesting handgun. I know if it were mine, I wouldn't let it go for $500
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:08 PM
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AND, it is documented as being shipped to a far Southwest Virginia police department, not all that far from where I live. I've been to Norton, Virginia several times and a friend of mine worked in Wise County for a number of years.

While I also ooh and aah over NIB firearms, the OP's 1917 was used in an area I know and was factory modified for a LEO, in a caliber that I enjoy shooting. I find that to be a very interesting handgun. I know if it were mine, I wouldn't let it go for $500
WELL Muley Gill, IMHO---YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW VIEWERS WHO MIGHT HAVE SOME SENTIMENTAL LINK TO THE AREA OF NORTON, VA. AND WISE COUNTY.....

AS SUCH---YOU, MY FRIEND, ARE BUYING THE STORY, AND NOT THE GUN........
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:19 PM
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WELL Muley Gill, IMHO---YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW VIEWERS WHO MIGHT HAVE SOME SENTIMENTAL LINK TO THE AREA OF NORTON, VA. AND WISE COUNTY.....

AS SUCH---YOU, MY FRIEND, ARE BUYING THE STORY, AND NOT THE GUN........
I'm curious, what part of the documentation have you missed that you call this a story not to be believed? This gun was sent back to the factory to have the cylinder changed to a (serialized) 45 Colt and a refinish in nickel with the current era stocks added.



To each their own on what they'd pay for any S&W as everyone has their own interests. I've definitely overpaid on guns I really wanted as I'm sure a number of others have. I'm just curious about whether DOCUMENTED factory modifications can possibly increase the value of a given gun over a same condition original.

Would it be throwing gas on the fire to ask if I should refinish this one?...(that's a joke as this one has earned its character)

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Me too. I'd rather have a Victory with honest wear than a NIB that lives it's life in the safe. Wish there was a way to find out how many OK 3 wires my Navy contract revolvers logged. Thanks for your service, sir. FLY NAVY.
I think the Victory's were landing on 11-wire boats so I don't think the 3 was the target wire though I've always maintained if they didn't want you to use a wire they wouldn't have installed it! Thanks and thank you for your service Chief!


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Old 09-09-2018, 10:20 PM
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WELL Muley Gill, IMHO---YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW VIEWERS WHO MIGHT HAVE SOME SENTIMENTAL LINK TO THE AREA OF NORTON, VA. AND WISE COUNTY.....

AS SUCH---YOU, MY FRIEND, ARE BUYING THE STORY, AND NOT THE GUN........
I'm curious, what part of the documentation have you missed that you call this a story not to be believed? This gun was sent back to the factory to have the cylinder changed to a (serialized) 45 Colt and a refinish in nickel with the current era stocks added.

Yeah, I'm scratching my head over that response too.


STORY: This .44 Special was won in a poker game by my great uncle during the Depression. According to the former owner, this .44, SN 26xxx, with the three notches in the grips, belonged to Pancho Villa and was carried by him during the New Mexico raid.

FACTS: The letter from Roy Jinks says that this 2nd Model .44 Special, SN 26xxx, was shipped to Jones Hardware in Duluth MN in January 1924.

Lloyd's 1917 has the facts.
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Old 09-09-2018, 10:39 PM
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I think the Victory's were landing on 11-wire boats so I don't think the 3 was the target wire though I've always maintained if they didn't want you to use a wire they wouldn't have installed it! Thanks and thank you for your service Chief!

LSO uniform of the day?
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:35 PM
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I can't comment on value, but I am wondering why some of you say "don't buy the story"? To me, a story is undocumented, but the conversion of this revolver to 45 Colt, the change of finish to nickel, and the new stocks are documented in the factory records, so it is not a story, it is fact.

Bill
The first definition of story in the dictionary I have within easy reach specifically says a story can be either fictitious or based on fact(s). I certainly did not intend to appear to be challenging the veracity of the OPís documentation. Itís an interesting gun. Itís price rests in how interesting a buyer finds it to be.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:02 AM
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I missed this when you first posted it.
Interesting responses.....


I think it is a very interesting gun, and I generally shy away from even Factory refinishes!


Basically, we have a CUSTOM, Factory built gun. The Factory never cataloged a 45 Colt back then.
The Factory did not catalog the 1917 in nickel.


We all know they did special orders, but I have also seen a few letters turning down special orders and recommending that the customer choose a regular production item from the catalog!


So, an LEO sends them a surplus 1917 and has them make exactly what he wants-
A Factory Built 5-1/2 inch Nickel 45 Colt with checkered grips.


Show me your Factory nickel 1917.
Show me your 45 Colt Factory built in the 20s.
Show me ANY really unusual FACTORY built configuration you have.


It does lack condition, but it got gobs of cool!


You should laugh, or maybe cuss, at $500.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:24 AM
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The first definition of story in the dictionary I have within easy reach specifically says a story can be either fictitious or based on fact(s). I certainly did not intend to appear to be challenging the veracity of the OPís documentation. Itís an interesting gun. Itís price rests in how interesting a buyer finds it to be.
I don't believe anyone was challenging the veracity of the documentation/story----I certainly was not.

What I DO believe is the saying "Buy the gun, and not the story" is another way of saying the three most important things to consider in a collectible are CONDITION, CONDITION, and CONDITION-----------and that there's no story that can overcome lousy condition. Mitigate it some? Sure---sometimes.

Is this one of those times?

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Old 09-10-2018, 11:09 AM
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Condition is always important, and taking two identical historic firearms in excellent and poor condition, one would obviously say the excellent is worth much more. But to say provenance wont overcome condition is to totally ignore history, and what it means to a gun's value.
There are numerous auction results of very poor condition, but significantly historic guns that factual provenance has documented, that have gone for far more than excellent equal guns. So yes, historic provenance can trump condition.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:41 PM
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No, sir, it cannot.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:12 PM
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.... So yes, historic provenance can trump condition.
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No, sir, it cannot.
This is the tension I mentioned earlier. It wonít be resolved. You have to decide for yourself why you collect.

Personally, i donít mind leaving the high-condition and mint guns, together with the high prices and the conceit of being ďtrue collectorsĒ, to those who value such things.

It keeps things reasonable for those of us who are after interesting guns instead.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:27 PM
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This is the tension I mentioned earlier. It wonít be resolved. You have to decide for yourself why you collect.

Personally, i donít mind leaving the high-condition and mint guns, together with the high prices and the conceit of being ďtrue collectorsĒ, to those who value such things.

It keeps things reasonable for those of us who are after interesting guns instead.
I'm in the historic end of gun collecting myself, so I do look at factual stories as important to a particular firearm. I can look at an original gun in excellent condition and appreciate it, but it's no different than any other original in equal condition.
But I can look at the exact same gun in equal, or even lesser condition, and have historical provenance that can be proven, and it excites me more. I own a fair number of firearms attributed to well known people, or built by well known famous gunsmiths. Those guns to me that have proven history of an owner or famous builder, by far mean more than just another nice gun. I can show someone a pretty minty gun and have them tell me they've got one just like it. But I can show them the same gun, and drag out all sorts of paperwork, pictures, and provenance; and they'll never tell me they have one just like it.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:06 PM
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No, sir, it cannot.
So you are saying, for example, that a mint 3.5 inch Registered Magnum owned by a nobody is worth more than General Patton's beat up revolver?
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:17 PM
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You should laugh, or maybe cuss, at $500.
Reminds me of 1926 Chopped Target .44spl

This one aint going anywhere for $500. Too much fun for what any non-boat anchor N Frame goes for.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:38 AM
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So you are saying, for example, that a mint 3.5 inch Registered Magnum owned by a nobody is worth more than General Patton's beat up revolver?
The OP's question was: "Can factory rework increase value?"

You have interjected a new hypothetical, not comparing value of an original condition revolver to a reworked one.

No, I am not claiming that General Patton's revolver is worth less than an unknown individual's Registered Magnum, and that was not the subject matter which I addressed in this thread.

I am saying that General Patton's beat up RM is worth more than it would be worth if the factory restored the RM to like new condition.

Nonetheless, I appreciate your inquisitive mind.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:12 AM
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New cylinder, nickel plate, & new grips for $11.85
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:13 AM
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I think the issue you have here is that the nickel is in such terrible shape. A blued gun in this condition, with this history, looks good, looks right.

A nickeled gun in this condition looks like it's seen better days, and the history doesn't really compensate for that.

Personally, had it been blued, and reblued like 5 times (at the factory), I'd adore it. As it is with the nickel I find it sad, and nothing I would be pleased to own.

If it were blue I would say it could bring at least $1000, as it is though that $500 quoted a few times might be low, if a police collector wanted it.

Edit:
I guess I would have to say that the answer to your question is highly dependent on the gun. I would for example say that one of my gun's value is increased it is because of the star + the SWHF documentation. But, this is largely because the base gun wasn't particularly valuable, the upgrades are tasteful and interesting, and it proves that it was a police gun:

Half Target M&P, Update: Another Police Gun!

another "star" gun that I have is more debatable. If it were original in high condition the gun would likely be worth more then it does as it sits. The SWHF documentation in my opinion adds to the value, and the letter confirming the factory modified the sights does add to the value (as it is an example of a job the factory would do for you).

Increasingly more Interesting Triple Lock *update*


In both cases though... I don't think it's the star exactly that adds to the value. It's that the star indicates history, and the amazing SWHF can sometimes provide that history. Without the SWHF I'd say both of these guns are a lot less valuable then they are now.

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Old 09-11-2018, 11:16 AM
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I think like many questions, the real answer to the OP's original question is 'it depends' or 'maybe.

If I recall correctly there were a handful of 1917 at somepoient that were pulled from inventory and converted to .45 Colt Ctg. before shipping in a small order. For sure because of the factory conversion those 1917 will bring more than your average 1917.

Now lets go with a hypothetical. You come to a dealers table and he has four 1917 sitting there in similar condition to the OPs 1917:
1. a well worn 1917 in original condition
2. a well worn refinished nickel or blued 1917
3. a well worn factory refinished 1917
4. the OP's well worn factory refinished and converted 1917 with documentation.

all are priced the same but the OP's which is priced a bit higher. I suspect many would go for the converted 1917. One it has documentation, two it is a little interesting history and three it was converted properly to .45 Colt Ctg.

Now another hypothetical with three 1917. All are in excellent condition.
1.all original 1917
2. a factory rebelled .45acp
3. a one same as the OP's with documentation.

How would you price them. I suspect I would price the high original condition 1917 higher than the converted 1917 but not by much. The other factory refinished comes in at a much lower price.My reasoning would be some collectors is going to see that converted 1917 and ask himself, "where and when will I see another one and have this opportunity.

So yeah maybe a factory rework will increase value but I think as condition increases the original 1917 might bring more but I'm betting there might be a collector or three that still might go for the conversion.

Of course I'm a bit biased because I have a factory converted .45 Colt Commercial 1917 that I'm not selling anytime some.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:39 PM
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The real issue with the ops gun is the terrible looking nickel finish. IF the gun was factory reworked into a 45 COLT and had a decent finish somewhere in the upper 90s some people would drool a bit. Blue or nickel.

One point is that the number of S&Ws in 45 colt that the factory made either original or as reworks is a pretty small number. I would even bet that some shipped from factory 45 colts were actually reworks. Special order comes in from favored customer for 45 colt. A completed or near completed 45acp gets a reamed 44 special cylinder and out the door it goes as a 45 colt. They didn't go "lets make up a 45 colt barrel and a 45 colt cylinder from scratch for this".
Until the 25-3 there was never an actual production 45 colt. Yes, the Canadians got some. But they were most likely reworked 1917s or 455s.

Any factory or factory rework gun, in 45 colt is rarer than a 1917 in decent condition.

Where are you guys getting all these functioning N frames for under $500 anyway?

Would I buy it? No, there is the finish and the fact that I already have a stack of S&W 45 colts, all reworks, from a 1917, a couple Brazilians, a couple 629s, and a 455 Triplelock. Even the 25-5 I have has rework. I replaced the cylinder with a reamed 44 mag cylinder for a recessed 45 colt and chopped the barrel to 5". Collectors don't want em. So what, I love em and wouldn't sell any of them for $500. I want what I want so I make it.

Of to the range to shoot some 45s. Later

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Old 09-11-2018, 09:03 PM
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Original condition has value because it is thought to be a physical rendition of the maker's design and intent at the time of manufacture.
However, the factory rework in this case has some value, for several reasons. First, it was done by the factory. Second, the factory no longer does such work, so the gun is a useful example of what the practices used to be in regard to S&W service. Third, the work was done well. Just seeing a nickel refinish without the usual dished out sideplate is a relief! Fourth, the rework put the gun into a desirable configuration, namely chambering for the 45 Long Colt.

I, personally, would be most interested in acquiring such a piece, with the letter/documentation, assuming the mechanical condition was good and the bore in nice shape.
But, then again, I'm a "nice" shooter kind of guy!

Jim
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:19 PM
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I agree, nothing can compare with originality to a collector, unless the collector is attracted to historically owned firearms like Patton or Goering, both owned firearms that regardless of their condition have crazy value added due to the historical value of their owners. There are more firearms in near original condition than there are historical owned firearms, so I guess from that perspective the historical owner pieces will always have a certain panache that original firearms will never obtain.
I belong to the group that appreciates the OP's firearm for basically what it is...a very well executed piece that begs to be fired. I like the fact that nice old pieces like this are still available so that people like myself that enjoy shooting period firearms in nice condition can still afford to purchase and enjoy shooting them without doing any real damage to the collectors world of safe queens. My favorites are their #3's maybe #2's.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:59 AM
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As stated above, a .45 Colt Hand Ejector was a special order item as was a nickel 1917. I tend to agree with your assessment that the conversions performed would increase the value of the gun compared to its original configuration. I believe this was your question before thread drift and valuations were kicked around.

Another example are factory target conversions on Triple Locks... Iíd be willing to pay more for one than an original fixed sight. It does seem the market prefers condition first and foremost... this applies to original and refinish condition. Youíre almost better off to have a factory refinished gun in high condition than an original poor condition gun. But once a refinished gun loses condition, people really have a hard time valuing them. You have a great gun either way... and I would view it more in line with a special order original gun than a reworked conversion. Iíd probably leave it as-is because it confirms what the letter states... tells a story with military and LEO history. If you were only worried about value or resale you could debate about a Fordís refinish in Nickel.
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Old 09-13-2018, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LLOYD17 View Post
Yes, the letter had the info included and a submission to the SWHF came up with the rest of the docs. The original thread linked has all the information that I didnít take the time copying and pasting.

In re-characterizing my original question, Iím really wondering if a later factory mod can actually increase value over an otherwise same condition model not modified. In this case, a 45 Colt vs the original 45 ACP. Another example is a TL that gets sent back (before the war) to have target sights added. Does this modified, but factory done, target TL have more value than an identical fixed sight model?

I get some are 100% stuck on absolute originality. My opinion is Iíd pay more for a TL with factory added pre war sights than a fixed sight model all else being equal. But Iím also a shooter and not a collector (or I guess you could say I collect guns to be shot).
HAVING A MARKED DISLIKE FOR FIXED SIGHT HANDGUNS, THAT OFTEN DON'T SHOOT POI TO POA, I WOULD ALSO PAY MORE FOR A TL WITH FACTORY ADDED ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS.....

BEING A SHOOTER, WHO HAPPENS TO HAVE A VERY MODEST COLLECTION AFTER 60 YEARS IN THE HOBBY, I WOULD HAVE NO INTEREST AT ALL IN ADDING AN ORIGINAL TL.....
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
I agree, nothing can compare with originality to a collector, unless the collector is attracted to historically owned firearms like Patton or Goering, both owned firearms that regardless of their condition have crazy value added due to the historical value of their owners.
My thoughts exactly. That's why when I put my collection up for sale I am going to double the prices to you guys because I once owned them...


Quote:
As stated above, a .45 Colt Hand Ejector was a special order item
IIRC the founders were usually unwilling to offer guns in calibers that contained that 4 letter word naming their biggest competitor from CT. This probably changed after they no longer owned the company.
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