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Old 09-11-2018, 07:05 PM
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Default 1937 Brazilian contract 45acp grip question

Just picked up this 1937 Brazilian contract 45acp and a 6" 19-3 from my local gun shop. Both shooter grade. My question is what grips should this gun have? It came with presentation Pachs. I want to replace them with period correct grips. Thanks in advance!
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:28 PM
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These are service grips that came on one of my Brazilian 1917’s. They sat in a drawer for years and recently found a home on this customized Brazilian 1917.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:37 PM
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If you give us the serial number (xx the last two digits if you like), someone here can tell you if it was in the First Group (1937+) or the Second Group (1946).

The First Group had stocks much like those pictured in Loc & Load's post. The Second Group had a lot more variation.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash View Post
If you give us the serial number (xx the last two digits if you like), someone here can tell you if it was in the First Group (1937+) or the Second Group (1946).
This is the sn 1857xx
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:11 PM
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found in a 2012 post by one of our own Hondo44:

In 1937 S&W made some 25,000 1917s for Brazil, most in serial range 181983-207043 with exceptions as usual, using the post WW I produced flat top frame and sq notch sight, and these are marked with a “MADE IN U.S.A.” on right frame side with the S&W trademark on left side of frame. They also have a Brazilian Crest on the side plate dated 1937. These first contract Brazilian 1917s had commercial checkered grips with flat chrome plated medallions.

The 2nd Brazilian contract run in 1946 of about 11,800, most using surplus WW I produced frames in the 166,000 — 175,150 range with exceptions as usual, with older style round top strap and small u notch rear sight. Some were the newer flat top frames generally in the 207,196 — 209,878 range, with a few round tops also reported in that range. These '46 contract guns had WW I surplus smooth grips.

“I believe the flat top-strap revision came to the N-frame in the 1926/1927 time frame. As I recall, the earliest Model of 1926 .44 HEs had round tops, but in short order the Model of 1926 production was using the flat-top frames with square-notch sight channels.” David Wilson 1917 military over-run or Civlian ?

In my experience every 1917 had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost.
Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:35 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. Looks like mine is from the first run based on post #5. I might try to find period correct grips, but since it's in shooter grade, I'll probably just keep the Pachs on it and shoot the snot out of it. Thanks again!
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:21 AM
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If your gun has a Flat top, it needs checkered grips.
If it has a round top, it needs smooth grips.
From what I can see, your gun looks like a flat top.




Quote:
Originally Posted by torizus View Post

The 2nd Brazilian contract run in 1946 of about 11,800, most using surplus WW I produced frames in the 166,000 175,150 range with exceptions as usual, with older style round top strap and small u notch rear sight. Some were the newer flat top frames generally in the 207,196 209,878 range, with a few round tops also reported in that range. These '46 contract guns had WW I surplus smooth grips.

Not entirely correct.
There are MANY round top guns from the 1946 contract outside the 166,000 175,150 serial range. They can even have 5 digit or four digit serial numbers, and I have heard of a 3 digit.
Apparently, the Factory used any serial number that had not been sold to the Gov't in the WW I contract.
I have never seen a flat top frame in the 1946 contract, but they may have made some to make up the full 12000 gun contract. If anyone has one they positively know shipped in 1946 contract, I'd like to hear about it.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handejector View Post
From what I can see, your gun looks like a flat top.
Yes it is flat top and has the square notch rear sight w/ sn 1857xx.
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:09 AM
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I've got s/n 170729 which Roy confirmed shipped in Apr 1946. It is round top U notch with smooth service stocks. It is in reasonable condition but the "bolt" comes forward just shy of flush, making it a little difficult to open the cylinder. Where would there be a good source for a new bolt the correct length? Numrich?
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Old 09-12-2018, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Richard View Post
It is in reasonable condition but the "bolt" comes forward just shy of flush, making it a little difficult to open the cylinder.

Have you tried cleaning the slot for the bolt?


It is more likely that the ejector rod is the problem because it is a bit long or not fully tightened.
Set the cylinder on the rear end on a hard FLAT surface like a countertop. Push down hard to push the center pin all the way in. If the center pin does not come completely flush with the end of the ejector rod, the ejec rod is too long or loose.
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Old 09-12-2018, 12:14 PM
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I just traded for a Brazilian contract last week ser# 188107 it came with period correct stocks but not numbered to the gun.
I put those away for safe keeping and added a set of antler stocks that I had and I think they look nice on the old revolver.
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:07 PM
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Here are two Brazilians from the Second Group wearing the stocks I think they left the factory with. By the way, both revolvers have the U Notch rear sight.

One set of stocks is the WWI leftover concave type. Amazing to think they sat around the factory for nearly 30 years. Oh well, so did the components for rest of the revolver!

The other set was (I think) actually made for its gun in 1946, since the matching serial number is stamped on the inside. Ignore the Wonder Sight ... it will get replaced with a proper screw one of these days.
1937 Brazilian contract 45acp grip question-brzl_1917_rhsa-jpg

1937 Brazilian contract 45acp grip question-rsideviewlarge-jpg
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Last edited by Jack Flash; 09-12-2018 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 09-12-2018, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash View Post

One set of stocks is the WWI leftover concave type. Amazing to think they sat around the factory for nearly 30 years. Oh well, so did the components for rest of the revolver!
I've seen a few Brazilians with concave stocks, but only a very few.
I'm skeptical that the Factory had any left in 1946, but of course we'll never know.
Since so many Brazilians were in pretty rough shape, there were almost certainly some with broken grips. So, I wonder if the importers put the concave grips on them. We are talking about Navy Arms and Century Arms here, two large importers that had dealt in surplus for decades. Maybe they had surplus concave grips that had never been used.
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:18 PM
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JF,

Are the concave grips numbered to the revolver?
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
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JF,

Are the concave grips numbered to the revolver?
I looked and looked at them with a flashlight & magnifying glass and can only say that any possible pencil marks are illegible. No number stamped or printed of course.

I realize that anybody could have put these concave stocks on the revolver at any time since it shipped in 1946. My belief is that it was more likely than not that it shipped that way. No way a letter would help on this, so it is just a supposition supported by surmise and conjecture.

The point of my post was that S&W was inconsistent in what style stocks they put on M1917s in the Second Group. I believe they just used whatever they found laying around or could manufacture quickly and on the cheap.
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:35 AM
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The grips on the Brazilians had STAMPED numbers, not pencil.
So, show me a Brazilian with concave grips and a high number STAMPED into them, and I might begin to believe some shipped with them.
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:08 AM
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All I can say is it wouldn't be the first time S&W skipped a step during the assembly process. Yeah, pretty lame, I know ...
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