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Old 09-14-2018, 12:59 PM
ABPOS ABPOS is offline
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Default Question about Bill Jordan's creation...

Did the first versions of the .357 K frame that Bill Jordan was helping create have the same type heavy barrels as a regular model 19? Or were they tapered.

Does anybody have any pics of the early guns? What was it called a Combat Masterpiece?

And oh yeah, did those early guns also have adjustable sights like a model 19?
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:22 PM
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To the best of my knowledge, what became known best as the Jordan holster resulted from a collaboration between Bill Jordan and Don Hume, a holster builder. By that time, the model 19 was well in use and I think it was specifically the revolver that Hume’s holster was built around. Similar style holsters were being made previously, but Jordan wanted the holster built with a piece of thin metal built into the body that extended to the top of the belt loop. This made the holster very stiff and secure and allowed the revolver to release from the holster very quickly and easily. Jordan utilized this feature to full extent during his fast draw shooting exhibitions. I carried a model 19 in this holster for many years on a Sam Browne belt. It was a great holster that stayed in place and retained its shape and stiffness for a very long time.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:22 PM
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Can't say about barrel weight but, as I recall

They were called a Combat Magnum

Yes, Adjustable Sights.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:33 PM
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Here's my Jordan rig.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:51 PM
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K260003 (first Combat Magnum completed on December 15, 1955 and later engraved and inlaid with gold by Alvin White; heavy barrel; and K260005, shipped to Pete Kuhlhoff in January 1956; heavy barrel. Click on the photos for a better look.

I have never heard of a Combat Magnum prototype, but I would assume if there was one, it would have had a heavy barrel as weight was needed to keep recoil with tolerable limits. Per Mr. Jinks, Bill Jordan specified a heavy barrel with an extractor rod shroud in his proposal for a K-frame .357 Magnum.




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Old 09-14-2018, 02:03 PM
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I'm assuming there were no 6" Combat Magnums. Sorry for calling it a Combat Masterpiece. I had my terminology mixed up. And what stocks were on the Combat Magnums? I'm assuming the Factory Targets were....
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
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I'm assuming there were no 6" Combat Magnums. Sorry for calling it a Combat Masterpiece. I had my terminology mixed up. And what stocks were on the Combat Magnums? I'm assuming the Factory Targets were....
The 6" M19 Combat Magnum was introduced in 1963. K frame targets were standard on 4" and 6" Combat Magnums. The 2 1/2" M19 Combat Magnum came with Magna grips.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:35 PM
larryofcc larryofcc is offline
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Here's mine, # K 262336, shipped 7-20-1956. The first revolvers were shipped with diamond center walnut target stocks. Later on, they were Goncalo Alves. This just happens to be my favorite S&W and I bought it from a Forum member. Just about drippy mint. Big Larry
Also, there were 50 like guns in the shipment.


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Old 09-14-2018, 02:44 PM
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I sure like those full top Magnas.

They'd even look good in walnut.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:46 PM
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Here's my Combat Magnum K3168xx..cir.1957

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Old 09-14-2018, 02:55 PM
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Here is pic of Bill Jordan's Combat Magnum. Glare on glass makes it difficult, but you can see "Bill Jordan" engraved above trigger. Maybe someone has a better pic.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:16 PM
larryofcc larryofcc is offline
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That's no fair. His has a red ramp sight. Probably a w/o rear sight too. Big Larry
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:29 PM
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Bill's gun had part of the trigger guard ground off for faster access.
He had hands so big you wouldn't believe it.


I got to shoot it.


What I learned from Bill that day saved my bacon several times. A real Gentle Man.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:48 PM
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Bill's gun...............I got to shoot it.
But did you have "steely" eyes?
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:27 PM
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But did you have "steely" eyes?
Dang! That looks photoshopped...with those oversize Sasquatch-like hands.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:29 PM
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Nickel too...

Factory Nickel 1956 Combat Magnum with box

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Old 09-14-2018, 05:41 PM
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I met Bill Jordan on 5-27-80,he signed his book for me,and yes,he had very large hands and was as humble and polite a gentleman as you will ever meet.I was in Mashburn Arms,one of the premier gun shops in the country at the time.This was in Oklahoma City,Okla.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:07 PM
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The new revolvers that they are making today do not have the class or appeal of these older models, and it is sad. I bought three of the newer revolvers, and got rid of them. However, I'm always looking for the older guns that are in good condition, and their values continue to increase.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
I sure like those full top Magnas.

They'd even look good in walnut.
"full top"-----dang, I sure am glad I thought of that!!

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:49 PM
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I had the opportunity to meet and shake hands with Bill a couple of times. I have pretty good sized hands and am about 6’ tall. I felt like I was a six year old kid holding my dad’s hand when I stood next to him and shook hands. They were the largest hands I ever shook!
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:58 PM
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Here's a couple of my Combat Magnums...
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:01 PM
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Lemme tell you, those hands were fast. He put on his shooting demonstration for our Peace Officers annual meeting after I spent the afternoon with him.


His speed was unreal. I practiced every day for 13 years and never came close to his speed.
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:17 PM
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Dang the bluing on those looks as if it’s liquid. Nice!
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Old 09-14-2018, 07:52 PM
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I knew Bill slightly and handled his guns. The barrels on Combat Magnums, whether numbered as Models 19 or 66 or pre-numbered, have always been the same weight.

I'll add that I think the 2.5-inch version was introduced in 1967.

Jordan was quite a hunter. I was in G.W. Stone's custom knife shop, interviewing him for a knifemaker profile that was published in, Blade.

Bill, whom I already knew, came in and told us about his safari, where he had used a Stone Model A knife to field dress 28 head of big game. That included a Cape buffalo, not a small animal! Didn't skin them; left that to the African skinners. But his blade was still sharp, and he was impressed.

BTW, his gun that day was a Model 59 9mm auto! He had driven to Dallas from Shreveport and thought it'd be a good travel companion.

I feel sure that no light barrel Combat Magnums were made. Bill liked the barrel weight, to give the four-inch barrel more of the feel and balance of a six-inch gun. It pointed better and stayed on target better in pointed fire. He even had an old M&P that had belonged to an uncle who was involved in fighting in Mexico, I think during the revolution of 1910. He'd re-barrelled it, with a heavier barrel, to get the effect he wanted.

I don't think the OP (ABPOS) asked about Jordan holsters. Some posting here seem to have misread his post. ??

But I have a basketweave Hume Jordan for a four-inch Combat Magnum and I wore it for a time. I prefer a higher riding holster, like the old Safariland Model 29 or the current El Paso Model 2, which virtually duplicates the older Safariland pattern, or Bianchi's Model 5BHL. These have thumb-break retention straps, easier to release during the draw and more retentive of the gun.

I was able to use Bill's guns, although his stocks were larger than I prefer. A friend had a Model 29 with 6.5-inch barrel and Herrett's Jordan stocks. I fired that with both heavy .44 Special and full .44 Magnum loads. The stocks did a wonderful job of reducing felt recoil. But my own hand prefers Skeeter Skelton's version of Walter Roper's stocks. My own M-29 had factory smooth rosewood "Coke" stocks. The efficiency of the Jordan style was quite evident when firing my gun and my pal's Jordan-stocked M-29.

I saw a photo of a quarter in Bill Jordan's hand. It looked like a nickel in most men's hands! Yes, he was big and tall.

I told him once that I'd wanted to meet him, as I enjoy meeting men whom I could look up to. (I'm 5'10". Bill was 6' 5".). Bill laughed and was modest, as ever. But quite witty in a droll way...

When I ordered my first copy of, No Second Place Winner, I was stationed at a remote radar site in Newfoundland. I told him to hurry and send it, as I was stuck there without much to read. In his autograph, he quipped that he liked a captive audience. He later signed a second copy of the book, well after I was out of the AF and back in Texas. Elmer Keith later signed a photo of him in the book, too.

Bill Jordan was the fastest accurate gun handler I've seen. He could shoot aspirins off of a table after a fast draw. I never saw him shoot at long range, but am confident that he could. I've seen Joe Bowden and Elmer Keith shoot and I've seen Jerry Miculek on film. Jordan was as good as any, but wasn't primarily an exhibition shooter. He was a cop with exceptional shooting skills. That makes him all the more remarkable.

He told me that in WWII, he was a Marine officer who commanded a unit tasked with mopping up Japanese who'd been missed by the main advances of US troops. Cleaning out their bunkers was dangerous work. He wore a S&W M-1917 .45 and carried a Winchester Model 12 shotgun, weapons he knew well from his Border Patrol service.

ABPOS, I hope you draw images of a Combat Magnum and of Bill Jordan. I think your artistic talent will eventually rival that of A.B. Zhuk. He does the best line ill. of guns that I've seen. He is to gun drawings as Joseph R . Tomelleri is to fish art.

Last edited by Texas Star; 09-16-2018 at 12:19 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:11 PM
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New in Box, unfired, Combat Magnum (Pre-19) 06/1956. I've owned this one since 1993.

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