I had written back in early August about buying a very high condition ca. 1944 BSR. I finally got around to firing it early this week. I had loaded 100 .38 S&W handloads using fairly recent CCI small pistol primers. Before I begin the rest of the story, after I first got the BSR home, I completely disassembled and cleaned the action internals and frame and re-lubed all moving parts. And yes, I had turned the hammer spring tensioning screw all the way in.

Anyway, for about the first half-dozen chamberfuls I fired, I was getting 2 and 3 misfires out of six (all in single action), although for most of the duds, they fired on the second or third try. Then, almost magically, the problem disappeared, and I got no more misfires. To me, that seems to signal a weak hammer spring which somehow "magically" healed itself. Nonetheless, I think I'll replace the old hammer spring with a newer one just to be safe. Has anyone else ever had a similar experience?

One more item - at 25 yards, grouping performance was terrible, even from a bench rest, and group centers were all at least 6" from POA. My reloads were approximate factory MV using 146 grain .361" lead bullets. Surprisingly poor performance from a revolver which evidenced very little previous use and a perfect bore. I guess I probably would have been able to hit at least a body-sized target at 25 yards consistently, but a target gun it ain't.

The original loading for the BSR was a 200 grain bullet and that could explain the POA/POI difference. You've got me on the light strikes, I've use CCI primers in at least 2 dozen Victory revolvers, both US and BSR, with no problems.

Something dragging, or binding just a little. Then once the internal parts settle back in poof problem gone just a guess...As to the POI vs POA have you have used this load in other 38 S&W chambered revolvers?

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Randy

I had the same thoughts as the previous two posters as I read your description of your experience.

For the misfires/light strikes; something is/was dragging and needed to settle in. I'm guessing a bit of trash may have gotten under the extractor star after your first few loadings, then once it fell out, you were back to normal. Just a WAG, but I surmise it was that or something similar. With additional thought, I would also check to see whether the firing pin has a free passage through the frame... no drag and no trash or burr in there to interfere with hammer movement. As nice as the gun is from your description, you should see evidence of dragging rather quickly.

As for the POA vs POI problem; that revolver would have been regulated for the WW II vintage military load of a 200 grain bullet over a rather stout dose of powder (cordite??) so I wouldn't expect modern target loads based on a 148 grain bullet and a mild load of powder to behave anything like the original. The British designation for the cartridge was something like 38-200 to tell you to use heavy bullets.

Hope this helps and please get back to us with further reports of your progress.

Froggie

As far as the group size:

What were your bullets sized to?

Also, try firing two or three shots from each chamber at a time to find the POI for each chamber. That will tell you if there are one or two offending chambers.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Agree completely about the tiny obstruction or drag problem. It's amazing what large effects can emerge from tiny imperfections.

An older DA revolver that I usually shot single-action had a small but noticeable hitch in the trigger release when fired SA. I could not see any problems in the disassembled revolver, but when I ran a fingertip over the SA notch in the hammer, I could feel something that almost certainly shouldn't have been there. Under magnification I could just barely see a discoloration that I took to be a speck of hardened oil or grease that had survived previous tear-down cleanings by me and prior owners. Solvent and patient toothbrush work removed it. When I reassembled the revolver the problem was gone.

Were your group centers off POA horizontally or vertically? A Brazilian I used to shoot hit to the right of POA for no immediately apparent reasons. When I looked at the full length of the bore more closely, I saw a shallow gouge at the muzzle -- possibly the result of a drop -- which had raised a tiny lip. Light use of a rat-tail file until a .45 range rod could be inserted into the bore without dragging fixed that, and on subsequent range outings the gun hit much closer to POA.

If you have access to a Ransom Rest, it might be informative to test the gun at 10 and 20 yards with altered loads and slightly heavier bullets. After the war the .38-200 round was re-standardized by the Brits with 178 grain bullets. A bullet about that weight might be a good thing to try.

I like Jim's suggestion to test the gun's accuracy chamber by chamber.

I suspect you will find a way to achieve more satisfactory accuracy with your BSR.

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David Wilson

I think it was in 1938 that Germany protested British use of lead revolver bullets. The 200 grain lead bullet was swapped for a 178 grain jacketed bullet before war broke out in Sept., 1939.This adjustment also applied to .455 ammo, although it retained the
same bullet weight, I think 265 grains.

S&W didn't get revolver contracts until 1940, so British ammo was then 178 grain jacketed.

I believe that some bores were on the tight side for .360" bullets and a UK gun mag said that RAF shooting teams sometimes had bullets stick in the bores of S&W guns! And I think some wartime ammo lots in .38 were underloaded. The jacketed bullets had more of a drag factor than did lead bullets, too. I think Webley and Enfield revolvers in .38 had more open bores, although I haven't measured any.

Yet, Geoffrey Boothroyd told me that S&W .38's were definitely preferred by men who carried revolvers in WWII. I'm sure that very heavy trigger pulls on Enfields contributed to that preference. If problems had been very widespread, S&W's would not have been as popular. I think that sometimes, tight bores met underloaded jacketed ammo with bad results. In any event,velocity was only about 630 FPS, if all was well. It's just a weak cartridge! I think that's one reason why many Commando and parachute regiments got Colt .45 autos, and later, Browning Hi-Powers.

I wish DWalt well, and think the ammo is his current problem. But as he knows how to replace the hammer spring, that seems a good idea, too.

BTW, Enfield .38's were supplied with front sight blades for both 145-146 grain and for 200 grain bullets.
I'm guessing that 178 grain bullets shot close enough to the sight for 200 grain bullets that a separate 178 grain sight was never made.

I know the RNZAF shooting team had a fold around tin plate sights on their S&W Victory revolvers that fit over the sight groveto compensate for POA/POI differences in the late 50’s and early 60’s.

I’d try some HBWC bullets. They expand to whatever the bore diameter is on a particular pistol. In my ‘42 civilian issue Victory it tightened groups and stopped the bullet tumble that was occurring.

Powderwise, I find a fairly fast powder (Mulwex/ADI AP50N) works best in .38 S&W.

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View from down under

My groups were more like patterns, and generally about 6"-8" below POA. Bullets used for my handloads were 146 grain .361" from Missouri Bullet Company over 3.0 grains of Unique. When I chronographed them, 10 shots from a single chamber, the average velocity was 652.9 ft/sec with a SD of 33.5 ft/sec.

As stated previously, the British Mk2 revolver cartridge used during WWII had a 178 grain FMJ bullet to comply with the Hague convention requirements. However, the British had a stock of pre-WWII manufactured Mk1 ammunition having the 200 grain lead bullet, and those were supposedly used only for training, not combat.

To me, ff the bore and crown are pristine, and the bullets are uniform and not keyholing, it sounds to be some variation in velocity has to explain the group dispersion and pattern. Perhaps trying another brand/weight of bullet, or a different powder/charge?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I like Kiwi Cop's idea of a HB wadcutter. Loaded as fast as is safe, it'd be a pretty good close range defense and small game gun. IF it shot to the sights!

Buffalo Bore makes a rather hot .38 S&W load with 125 grain bullet. Has anyone here tried it? Probably shoots low in most guns. But in pointed fire across a bedroom, it might have its uses.

My 148 gn HBWC loads shoot to POA at 10 yard. At 25 yards I aim slightly high and right to hit the 10 ring on our version of a B17 target, about the edge of the nine ring at the 2 o'clock point.

For defensive rounds I'd load it backwards. The same bullets loaded backward in .357 cartridges used for pest control are, according to the guy who does this, "explosive" on possum and goat.

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View from down under

I got around to changing the hammer spring of my new Victory BSR this evening. I had another spring (used, from a Model 15) in my odd parts box. The replacement spring is noticeably stronger. I think my recent misfire problem is over. Might well be possible that my BSR could have resided in somebody's desk drawer for many years, cocked.

"Buffalo Bore makes a rather hot .38 S&W load with 125 grain bullet. Has anyone here tried it? Probably shoots low in most guns."

That BB load is to be used only in solid frame revolvers, not top breaks. I think they advertise it as giving about 1000 ft/sec MV from a 6" barrel and proportionately less from shorter barrels.

I have previously commented that the .38 S&W can be handloaded to equal or exceed standard .38 Special ballistics. Last week I loaded up some .38 S&W cases for chronographing using 146 grain .361 LRN bullets and 3.9 grains of du Pont #5 (long obsolete). In the BSR I was getting an average MV of around 912 ft/sec. But I wouldn't recommend using that load in any of the old top break revolvers. My normal .38 S&W load is 3.0 grains of Unique, giving an average MV of 652.9 ft/sec, which I do use in top breaks without problems. Some time ago I was using 125 grain lead truncated cone bullets (.358) over 3.5 grains of Unique and getting somewhat over 700 ft/sec MV with it, and was shooting it in several top breaks. It was a very good load and I remember it grouped well from my 4" H&R Defender. I used up all those bullets, should get some more.

I have been trying for years to find a front sight blade for a Enfield .38 with negative results

You are thinking of Webley Mk IV .38 pre-war revolvers Tex. There were three Enfield front sights for initial zeroing; straight, off-set left and off-set right.

Peter