I collect target guns. I've been at it a long time. Just so there's no confusion, I define a target gun as one a serious competitor would likely select for use in a match. (And it's noteworthy to mention the revolvers in my collection pretty much stop at the end of the "five screws".) And just because it's what I was brought up with, a "match" means a "bullseye" competition. (Yes, I know there are a bunch of other target competitions these days---and I know more folks shoot in them than in "bullseye"----but none of that makes any difference, 'cause that's not what this is all about. This is all about the guns---target vs. not.

So what's the difference? You ask me that question, and I say sights. That's a throwback to my early days and my first collection---also target guns, but defined as anything with target sights. (Yeah, I know----pretty dumb.) Sure, there are target grips, triggers, and hammers; but all that stuff will bolt right on and work fine on a standard gun---not so with the sights. All of you who agree with me are in for a rude awakening---at least I was.

I bought a 1925 catalog not too long ago. I'm not a paper fan, but I thought it might answer a question I had about sights. It didn't really. What it did do, was answer that question up above---and I was rudely awakened. My excuse for being so damn dumb is I've never had anything but target grade guns (not counting a beater M&P from my father-in-law).

So----from 1925 (paraphrased now and then for the sake of brevity---never mind you probably won't notice much brevity): These (target) guns are no different than the regular guns---same materials fashioned by the same people with the same tools--------------BUT. "They are, however, adjusted in the different way necessary to give the results desired in this special kind of shooting." (And the term "adjusted" apparently includes cutting grooves in triggers and tangs on the target guns. "Tangs" are grip straps for all of you who weren't around in 1925.) They go on (to explain the grooves), noting "Target arms are used for slow fire with a prolonged trigger squeeze, and best results are obtained when a loose but non-slipping grip is maintained."

They continue: "For these reasons a special type of trigger pull is desirable----not by any means simply a very light pull, but one having the peculiar quality termed "short and crisp" by shooters. This not only requires a special type of notch and trigger point, but requires a different adjustment of the working parts of the action." They go on to note a trigger pull of 3-4 pounds for the target guns---5-7 otherwise. Right about now is when you should come to realize why folks rave about shooting pre-war target guns like they were something special. It's because they're something special----really special.

The moral of this story is the "good old days" really were---as far as target guns go anyway.

Ralph Tremaine

I learned something about what was in the minds of those craftsmen so long ago. Thanks for the post.

Very interesting Ralph.

Makes me wonder if the trigger pull weight difference between fixed sighted and target sighted models still exists today.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I've wondered the same thing----but just wondered. My current/recent observations suggest conclusions, which if articulated here, would likely get me banned for life!!---more or less IMMEDIATELY!!

Ralph Tremaine

Still wonder why anyone ever thought the HUGE wide, sharply grooved trigger was a good idea. In my experience, that massive trigger doesn't cause much trouble if you shoot a revolver in single action, but if you shoot it in double action at all, that trigger is horrendous and simply corrupts the double action trigger stroke -- with a side bonus of tearing up your finger.

The "Three-T's!" is a Smith & Wesson collecting buzzword, but I loathe the trigger part of those Three-T's.

When PPC became the big game and master pistolsmiths began building phenomenal competition rigs out of K-38's (Behlert, Strahan, Davis, Power, and more) not a single one of these greats ever used a wide, grooved trigger. Not one, not ever that I ever saw. The PPC game was all double action all the time, and a small, beautifully contoured and smoooooooth faced trigger was what everyone wanted, needed and exactly what they got.

The huge wide sharp-grooved trigger is 100% lost on me. And while it doesn't exactly seem to harm single action shooting... I also see zero benefit. And I have plenty of S&W revolvers that have them. FWIW, it's also zero help on the Model 52 pistol, and the phenomenal target guns built by the Performance Center in the 1990's and 2000's had figured out the same thing, and not a one of them has that huge, sharply grooved trigger.

. . . now if we could just get inside the mind of the OP . . .

I had to check. Taking out my targets from 1906 to 1951, I found that almost every one broke right at 4 pounds pull in single action. I took our a few of my standard 38s and 32-20s from 1904 to 1928 and found them to be almost all at 6 pounds SA. Lastly, I pulled the trigger on the standards in double action and they averaged 12-14 pounds. It is interesting that the targets averaged 18-20 pounds in DA. Now I know why I cannot hit anything in DA mode. I am amazed

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Gary
SWCA 2515

A wider trigger gives the feeling of a lighter pull in single action shooting. That's why trigger shoes were popular at one time.

Try this: Take a new #2 pencil and sharpen it. Put it in your weak hand and give it a firm grip. Push against the eraser until the pencil moves. Now, reverse the pencil in your hand and push against the point.

Now, which one felt lighter?

When I did police qualifications with a revolver, shooting double action, I too preferred a smooth, narrow trigger.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Gary, your double action woes will be cured with a Miculek Spring Kit (BANG, Inc.). The DA pull will be whatever you want it to be (from 7 lbs. (lowest recommended) on up. I didn't measure any before/after on SA, but the difference (if any) isn't noticeable.

Ralph Tremaine

Ralph,
I always knew you were an Expert BULLS*** shooter!
bullsEYE
bullsEYE


Seriously, have you ever competed in Bullseye matches? One of my bucketlist items is to shoot in the Harry Reeves match at Camp Perry. One handed, National Match course, with vintage revolvers. Probably be with a S&W that has King stamped on it several places

Match video
American Rifleman | Camp Perry Harry Reeves Revolver Match

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PTLAPTA!