There is a gun on an auction site listed as a Smith & Wesson Model Pre Model 31. The description states "... 1 7/8 .32 S&W Long, 5 shot blued revolver... diamond round butt grips, SN 641nnn."

I can't find anything describing what a Pre Model 31 is.

It's also a 5-shot, not a 6-shot.

Can anyone her please explain what this really is?

Thanks,
Richard

It is a small frame (I then J) revolver properly known as a .32 Regulation Police. The fact you didn't know what it was, coupled with the fact I had to look it up speaks volumes about the unfortunate practice of referring to items with proper names with improper "Pre" numbers----a truly sad state of affairs---a product of post-savoir faire---or maybe pre-savoir faire and such like. I may have to give that some thought.

Ralph Tremaine

As Mr Tremaine has so eloquently pointed out the "Pre" gets thrown about freely. The Standard Catalogue Of Smith and Wessons calls it .32 Regulation Police (Postwar) -Pre-Model 31 serial number range 536000 to about 712953 years 1946-1960 became model 31 1957 per SCSW. Hope this helps.

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Randy

Welcome to the Forum.

And BTW, a .32 should be a six shot, not a five shot. .38s are five shot revolvers on these small frames.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Hi and welcome.

1st thing; you'll want to delete the auction # because it's against the rules for open auctions. You'll get a firm warning to read the rules, but likely nothing else since you're a new user.

2nd; the gun is a .32 Hand ejector Model of 1953 built on the New I frame, 3 screw. It's clearly a 6 shot, the cyl flutes are between the cyl notches. The rd butt makes it a Pre Model 30. A sq butt .32 Regulation Police with longer barrels would be a Pre Model 31.

Pre Models for the I and J frames are from Model of 1953 until they were model stamped in 1958.

3rd: The S&W monogram is on the left side of frame where it should be for this vintage. The lazy M in a circle is a real blotch on an otherwise fairly nice original example.

4th: Likely shipped late 1956 -early 1957.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I'm surprised it took 5 posts to have somebody mention that this is a forerunner of the Model 30 rather than the 31. There have been a lot of folks recently who have gotten all excited about the micro-evolution of the !- & J-frames in 32 as well as the other calibers, and square vs round butt is a big deal!

I normally don't critique somebody's sales presentation, but if they were going to post 13 pictures it seems like they would have spent a little more time cleaning up the gun itself and making it look as good as possible. Like friend Hondo, I find that strange brand on the side plate to be a pretty jarring note on an otherwise nice gun, but if you want it for a shooter, I guess you can get used to it!

Speaking from a shooter's standpoint, that little gun is one of my favorite all time guns... it's a matter of record that I have the earlier, flat spring version of this gun (I-frame, of course) as one of my most frequently carried concealed carry guns. I was at the local indoor range Saturday and gave it a little workout... which reminded me once again why I like it so much!!

Froggie

My apologies for including the auction site reference. It was intended to provide access to the pictures. I have edited that from the post.

I was very curious when a search included this in the results, and could not find any reference to a "Pre Model 31". I have a Model 31 with the longer barrel that has never been fired. It belong to a friend who passed.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
Richard

Welcome to the forum!! It's a great place to hang out...

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Lets clarify what gun you are talking about. Attached is a picture of a "Pre 30" (Same gun as a Pre 31 but with Round Butt ), both a 3 1/4" and a 2". Does your gun look like one of these, but with a Square Butt?


Or, does it look more like this, which is a 38 Regulation Police, and is a 5 shot, the 32 S&W version of this is a 6 shot.


If neither, it may not be a Smith & Wesson, but another brand with the markings "32 S&W Long Caliber", meaning it uses that kind of ammo.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Welcome aboard from Wyoming.

Beneath the finger prints and goo it looks like you'll find a little pitting. Not at all a problem for a shooter-grade .32 Hand Ejector as long as the barrel is not pitted. I find the "brand" on the side plate a bit interesting, too.

I have 637539, which is a .32 Hand Ejector that shipped from the factory on June 1, 1956. They're fun to shoot and more accurate than me at close range.

Attached Images

	'56 32 HE - R.jpg (82.3 KB, 27 views)
	'56 32 HE - L.jpg (97.6 KB, 27 views)

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Here are pictures of the Model 31-1 that I own. It's the one I mentioned once belonged to a friend wow.ho's gone now. I was told by a very knowledegeable gun store owner that it has never been fired.

First attempt to add an attachment; hope I did it right...

Attached Images

	My 31-1 Medium Size IMG_1142.JPG (124.2 KB, 42 views)
	My 31-1 Medium Size IMG_1143.JPG (122.4 KB, 266 views)

Sorry, I miss-read the question. Here are two pictures of the gun in question. I didn't take them, so I can't do anything about the quality.

It is definitely an S&W based on the markings on the right side of the frame?

Thanks again to all who chipped in!!

I ordered a copy of the Smith and Wesson Standard Catalog today.

Richard

Attached Images

	pix214399183.jpg (63.0 KB, 71 views)
	pix699621435.jpg (49.5 KB, 53 views)

It sure does look virginal. If you'll send it to me, I'll fix that.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Here is my "pre-model 30", which seems to be the gun you originally asked about, and have posted pics of:



Mine has a serial of 6674xx, and was shipped in August of 1954.

I think that if they are listing this as a pre model 31, that they are mistaken, and it is a pre model 30.

Edit.... I've been looking at the picture of the original gun from the auction site. Maybe Hondo and two-bit and Froggie could jump in here, but for a gun with a serial number 20,000 lower than mine, which shipped in 1954, I would expect it to have the earlier hammer. This one looks like it has a later hammer. I would assume that it has been replaced somewhere along the way.??

They are wonderful little shooters, and have very little recoil. As Froggie mentioned earlier, some folks are still carrying them for personal protection, although many here would find them a bit underpowered. But the trade off to low power is low recoil, which may result in better shooting.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Guy,

Thanks, but I think I can handle that part myself. Would you call this a square or round butt grip?

Richard

It's a square butt. The Regulation Police revolvers are all square butt.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

The gun pictured in Post #12 is a Round Butt, and that pictured in Post #11 is a Square butt.

I'm curious about the logo that appears engraved on the side plate in the photo in Post # 12.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Your gun is a Regulation Police with the Model of 1953 New I & J frame square butt on a square grip frame:


H. Richard's Regulation Police in post #9 and the photo below have square butt grips, but they are the pre 1953 Old I frame square butt. It's actually square butt grips over a modified round butt grip frame:



This shows special grip frame for Reg Police grips; notice the notched area on the bottom half of the grip frame backstrap:

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The gun in Post 12 is the one on the auction site. I'm a little interested in it if the bidding doesn't get out of hand. I tried examining it using the zoom feature, but it really looks like someone tried to scratch something on to the frame. Here is my attempt to zoom in and take a picture with my phone, email it to myself, save it to my hard drive and upload it here. There must be an easier way...

Perhaps, it's the owner's initial "M"?

Attached Images

Scratch IMG_1153.JPG (94.1 KB, 38 views)

Les,

Excellent observation about the hammer.

As we have come to know about S&W's the serial #s can be way out of order compared to when they shipped. And we see groups of #s that all shipped about the same time and out of order. So I always look at the guns' features which can be more accurate as to when the gun was actually assembled, for example the hammer style and # of screws. I bet your gun is a 4 screw while the OP's subject gun #641295 is a 3 screw with new hammer.

So when I looked at my serial # list, sure enough there's a group of guns in the 641XXX range that shipped much later (1956-7) than your #6674xx which shipped in August of 1954.

So that's why #641295 has a newer style hammer than yours.

And in fact I have another #6674XX .32 HE that shipped December, 1957 with the new hammer!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Yep an M. It looks like a brand and would be read "Circle Lazy M" because the M is on its side.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Maybe I’ve gotten it all out of perspective, but when I look at it from the perspective of being held in the hand, it seems more of a “Circle-Lazy-W” brand to me. Either way, it’s part of the guns own history and the gun is still a very interesting one, especially as a shooter and EDC.

Froggie

Froggie,

Good point! I don't know for sure which direction it should lay to be "lazy".

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Froggie and Jim,

The only brand I can recall locally with a lazy letter is the 8 Lazy Y, from 1916 for cattle and horses. It's still in use.

On that one the top of the Y faces left (see photo).

Would be interesting to know where the gun was sold and check that state's brand records for a match.

Attached Images

8 Lazy Y.jpg (2.9 KB, 4 views)

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

The gun in the auction is post-WWII and round-butt, and incorrectly identified as a pre-31. Seller is in San Antonio TX.

I bid on it, thinking that for $127 I could overlook the molestation. Maybe ream it for .32 H&R, and have it hard-chromed for carry. Now that its over $300 I will pass.

I don't see an answer to the OP's question, about what is a pre model 31...
Up until the late 1950's S&W revolvers had names, not model numbers. Around 1957, they all got model numbers. For example the .32 Regulation Police became the Model 31, and the .32 Hand Ejector became the Model 30. When we look back at older guns without model numbers, we refer to them as "pre" the model that they became.

What ammo do you carry for defense?
Thanks, Pete

That's a common partial misstatement and one which perpetrates misuse or generic use of the term.

A Pre-Model is only a ‘named’ model that IMMEDIATELY PRECEDES when the company began the model ‘number’ stamping system, AND incorporates all of the SAME ENGINEERING DESIGN CHANGES of their model numbered counterparts.

It came about as a LABEL for differentiating between a gun that is stamped with a model # and one made before model #s were stamped, but was otherwise the identical gun.

Reference Pre Model relative to the OP's subject gun in post #5.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Relative to the OP's subject gun in post #12, those stocks won't match the gun #.

It finally dawned on me what looks wrong about them:



They appear to be Medium Hi Horn grips from the Bodyguard with the horn sanded down.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Pete,
I get JHPs from Georgia Arms. My practice/range ammo is 100 gr LSWCs over a mid charge of Bullseye. At true self defense ranges, the POA/POI for both is close enough to be pretty much unnoticeable.
Froggie

Richard, I see that the gun sold ....did you buy it?? Looks like it went for a pretty fair price.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les,

No, I got busy and forgot about it. I was going to bid on it, but...

I just bought a Remington 51 in .380 manufactured in the 40's.

Richard