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10-17-2018, 11:47 AM
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Bought yesterday. Need info.
M1905 4th change from around 1926? It is a round butt and the book says scarce, but nothing else. Just how scarce are the 4th change round butt revolvers? I have a 3rd change round butt, and the book says they made them both but no differentiation between them. This is a real nice revolver with some bbl. wear and buggered screws. 100% matching numbers. Thanks, Big Larry
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10-17-2018, 12:01 PM
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I don't know why its said that they are scarce. There may be more square butts than round butts, but even that is not known, as far as I know. It seems to be the case that we see more square butts for sale than round butts.
This is a nice gun. Perhaps you can find some replacement screws, to deal with the buggered ones.
Regards, Mike Priwer
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10-17-2018, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer
I don't know why its said that they are scarce. There may be more square butts than round butts, but even that is not known, as far as I know. It seems to be the case that we see more square butts for sale than round butts.
This is a nice gun. Perhaps you can find some replacement screws, to deal with the buggered ones.
Regards, Mike Priwer
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This is the 1st 4th change round butt I have found for sale.
Fellow poster told me where to get the screws. Thanks, Big Larry
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10-17-2018, 12:11 PM
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Nice M&P. I love the early ones and almost all of my K frame collection is pre-WWII time-frame. There has been some debate about whether any round or square butt was rare for any of the early model K frames. I would say that since almost 700,000 K frame revolvers were manufactured before 1940, I am not sure that any butt-frame design can be called scarce. I do not see premiums paid for round butt vs square butt M&Ps, just that more of one than the other were made during production years leading up to WWII.
The 1899 and Model 1902 were not available in a square butt. Around the time with the introduction of the Model 1905, square butt frames started showing up, but Roy Jinks book never made mention of either one being scarce? Same with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, nor 4th Changes made any statements about either style being scarce. Supica's editions have made references to this topic, but I wonder who counted them?
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10-17-2018, 12:53 PM
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That's a pretty revolver Larry. While I love N frames, the round butt K frames fit my hand the best of all.
I would classify RB K frames from the 1930s as being "less common".
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Last edited by Muley Gil; 10-17-2018 at 12:59 PM.
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10-18-2018, 09:50 AM
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Repair the screws yourself
Nice revolver! If you like it, does it really matter all that much if it's "rare" or not? The screws that I can see in your photo don't look too "buggered". Why not take a couple of small, square fine-tooth files and clean them up yourself? A little cold blue and they'll look as good as new. That way you'll still have an original, unmodified, matching revolver.
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10-18-2018, 10:03 AM
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Larry, nice find. I found my first 4" rd butt last year. I think it is from 1916 and was a "sock drawer" gun in excellent shape. I don't think you are allowed to own one of those in UT so send it to me for safe keeping. LOL. lee
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10-18-2018, 10:22 AM
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That's a beaut, Big Larry.
I keep looking, but no luck yet. One of these days.
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10-18-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowe
......
The 1899 and Model 1902 were not available in a square butt. Around the time with the introduction of the Model 1905, square butt frames started showing up, but Roy Jinks book never made mention of either one being scarce? Same with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, nor 4th Changes made any statements about either style being scarce. Supica's editions have made references to this topic, but I wonder who counted them?
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So, not just beauty, but also scarcity, rarity, and uncommonality are in the eye of the beer holder.
Looking just at pre-WW II production, starting in the upper 600,000s production of square-butt guns for Britain and official contracts pretty much ended round butts for the duration in 1939/40.
So if you take the 60,000-plus round-butt guns pre-Model 1905, and then add Roy’s estimated 15% round butts of the number up to 700,000 (for simplicity), you end up with about 150,000 M&P’s that should have a round butt.
Since that number is skewed toward early, the overall survival rate is certainly lower than of square butts, but you can decide for yourself whether that qualifies as rare or scarce or just less common
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10-18-2018, 01:46 PM
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If you search out older S&W revolvers enough, you get a feel for what variations you see more than others. I don't think one always needs a book or reference to tell us how scarce, or how many of each style was made. How often one sees one variation vs. the other can certainly tell us how common something is also.
I'm sure most collectors have had that moment when you saw something and told yourself, "Wow! I don't see that too often."
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10-18-2018, 04:34 PM
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In 1926, S&W no longer called it a Model of 1905 - just a Military and Police Model, either round butt or square butt.
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10-18-2018, 05:25 PM
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RARE??
It is JMHO, but I am thinking some are way too hung up on so-called 'rare' and collectable -- if you like it and it is safe to shoot then I wouldn't care. Even though I am not a died in the wool RB fan, THAT is one fine looking piece and I would welcome it to my safe for any reasonable amount. CONGRATS!!!!
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