A friend called me today and wanted me to help him place a value on a few guns that he was wanting to sell for a friend. I should know better.

Here is the Combat Masterpiece. I do not have it home yet, but I committed to picking it up tomorrow. I should have taken more pictures.... I'll post more over the weekend. It has the target hammer, trigger, and stocks. I don't know if the stocks are original, I don't remember seeing the Combat Masterpiece with anything but the magnas, but I'm not all that familiar with the model....







Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Oh, yeah....the "little something else"!! Well, I did bring this one home this afternoon. Serial number shows it was made in 1975, according to the Colt website:



I had actually had both of these revolvers on my mental wish list that I sort of keep running in the back of my mind, not necessarily something I'm actively seeking, but something I'd like to get if I run across it...I'm sure that many of you guys do the same thing.

Just my luck that they both popped up at the same time!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Wow! Nice football targets on the .38. They'll go great on one of your other guns until you find a nice set of magnas. I know, I know, I'm opinionated. Great score Les.

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I'm gonna grow fins.

My 11-53 shipped Combat Masterpiece came with a target hammer and walnut target stocks as seen on the box and the factory letter. The stocks were the non relieved type too. This revolver is drippy mint and one of the nicest Smiths I own. Tools also came with it. Big Larry

What a great looking Combat Masterpiece! I wouldn’t care one bit if those weren’t original stocks. I’ve never been a fan of mangas and those targets look perfect, to my eyes, on your revolver. Really nice! Congratulations on your new .38!

A former police chief used to carry an old Combat Masterpiece that had diamond target grips. I doubt he bought them after market, so they probably came with the gun.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Those are both really nice and both no longer available, new...........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

You have excellent taste. Those are very nice and something that you can be very proud of.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

I had a 6" .22 LR/.22 Magnum Colt New Frontier. It was a sweet shooter.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Hey Les. If the box will close with the Target grips on the gun it probably came with the grips. Boxes for target griped guns are deeper.

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

Very, very nice! Yeah, you should have know better, but who could blame you on that beauty!

Thanks for the nice comments, folks...well here is the rest of the story. There was one more gun that he wanted to sell, but without doing a little research I was reluctant to commit, and also had just depleted my "mad money" when I bought these two!!

Anyway, here it is, a Python from 1977, could even be unfired since the factory. At least in excellent condition, with the box.



I'm mostly a shooter, even though I have a sort of "collection". Even the Combat Masterpiece above is in such nice condition that I'll fret a little when shooting it, but will still shoot it.

But the collectibility of the Pythons in really nice shape, such as this one is in fill me with trepidation!! If I bought it, would I feel comfortable shooting it??

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I hate you!

Nice gun!

Even if those stocks aren't correct (and as pointed out, they could be), they look great. And for me, K-Frame targets rate right up there with the BHP as far as comfort in the hand.

I'm a sucker for target grips, especially diamond targets (diamond Magna's too now that I think about it). The ones on that gun are really nice Les.

My 15-2 came to me wearing diamond targets, but they're not as nice as the ones you've got. Yours look more like a pair I found at the LGS one afternoon, and have on a 1954 22 Combat Masterpiece right now. I think they're going to stay there.





I'm guessing the wood is walnut? I don't know if they're quite period correct or not, but they look good on the gun. Even better that my cell phone pictures show.

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John 3:16 .

Congratulations on a superb pair.

Ah, go ahead and get the snake. When you shoot it, simply tell yourself, "It's just another gun."

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Simply Wow Les;

Looks like a good thing you didn't have 5 or 6 large in cash, or that Python would have walked home with you.

Would your new Combat Masterpiece be known on the Forum as a "pre Model 15"? I know this question seems dumb, but it keeps popping up now and then and I have what some say is a "pre Model 27" and a K 22 Masterpiece which some call a "pre Model 17".

Cagun Bass posted a 15-2, with diamond magnas, my 15-3 (1969) has magnas as original stocks.

As far as that Python.......I am right up there with you! I agonized over shooting my 6" (1971) for far too many years (never did)..then got into S & W's...sold most all Colts to fund the S&W's that I wanted...but held those last 2...the Python and a Colt Peacemaker 22LR/22 Mag (1974) which looked like what you just got.

That Python translated into THREE (3) high condition S & W's that really got me going faster on the slippery slide we all know.

Like you.......I just HAVE to shoot what I own...the Python was the only exception...and now range time with family, friends, and my Pre 27, Model 27-2, or lately the Model 66, have left me with No Regrets for not shooting the Colt Safe-Queen. Methinks ya done good passing and you'll be too busy cranking out rounds from those other 2 (actually 3 with the second cylinder)

Attached Images

	Colt Python reduced size.JPG (27.7 KB, 64 views)
	Peacemkr 1.jpg (45.8 KB, 60 views)
	Pre 27 a.jpg (39.9 KB, 60 views)
	K 22 a.jpg (30.8 KB, 62 views)
	Mod 15-3 -B.jpg (48.8 KB, 58 views)

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Always good to get some treasures. All my very best, Joe.

I don't have a Python, but do have three of the next best things - a Colt .357 and two old Colt Trooper .357s (plus two Colt Officers Models). All in high condition and I shoot all of them. If I had a Python I would shoot it also.

I picked up the K38 today, and here is a quick shot of the bottom of the box. The serial number on the box matches the serial of the gun. The stocks are walnut. When I took them off the gun, you can still smell the walnut smell on the inside. I cannot find a marked serial numbers on the stocks. I am still of the opinion that they came with the gun, as the folks who owned the gun weren't gun people, they probably shot it a few times and put it on the closet shelf. I can't see them customizing the gun, even though they could afford to buy high condition brand name guns. Of course that is just speculation on my part.

The grease pencil marks on the bottom of the box show TT for Target Trigger, and TH for Target Hammer, and those match the configuration of the fun, but are also marked "OSS" (I think). Could this be for Over Sized Stocks? Help!! I'm new to this time period box and gun!?



PS....I have a ship date request in for Roy... But I'm guessing around 1956.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I really like that CM-My dream gun in that condition and vintage:-)
Around twelve years ago I went hunting for a python with enough wear that I could shoot it.Prices were nuts.Finally found one on gunbroker advertised as new(yeah sure) for not too bad of a price so I bought it.Seller happened to live one town over and we met up.The gun really was new.I kept it for six years and just couldn't bring myself to shoot it lol
I finally sold it for three times what I had paid for it
So there was that

Me thinks Oct/Nov.

Just pretend you are buying a newly made Python.

Life's too short.
Just shoot it in your Birthdays only.

PS. I don't buy new guns anymore. But I did once. And I bought them to shoot them.

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Expect the unexpected

That is a beauty. It is nice to fall into great old Smith revolvers purchases. They don't make them like that anymore and haven't for years.

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Ken

What Kurusu said! Life’s too short. If you want the Python, don’t agonize. Buy it and shoot if you want.

Less, great C.M, if the estimates on the shipping date are close, that one was the twin to the C.M. my dad wore to work when he was on the job.
I don't even see a turn line on yours.
As for the target stocks. I'm guessing that someone ordered what they thought may be the target version of the C.M.

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Always Stay Strong!

X2.... After I win the 1.6 billion I'm going on a buying spree

Les,

Target stocks are very seldom numbered because they don't need to be fitted to the gun. 99% are not numbered. Is the box deep enough for the gun with the stocks on it?

If so, you're correct about the OSS.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Yup... "OSS" = "OverSized Stocks".

Great Packages!!!

Congrats and thanks for sharing,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Close, but no cigar!

Everyone, including me was close on the ship date, ..... it shipped in December of 1956. Beautiful bright blue that my poor cell phone picture just can't capture:





Thanks everyone for the nice complements.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Thanks for all the responses, guys, this might be the first S&W that I request a letter for. It seems as though every time I make that resolution, another gun comes along that I absolutely have to have, and then I spend any money I have put aside for letters!!

Bets RegRds, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

I must have missed this post originally, Very neat early 4 screw Combat Masterpiece,

I would bet the target stocks shipped with the gun based on the TT/TH combo and longer box normally used with 6" barrel guns,
(IIRC the CM doesn't quite fit in the smaller 4" box wearing target stocks).

As stated very few target stocks are found with serial stamps and my guess is that was because it wasn't really necessary to fit them to the gun like the Magnas.

Also,
The serial (and ship date) puts your CM just after the initial run of Combat Magnums which ran from K260,001 to around K265,000 ,
BTW the Combat Magnum was the first K frame to ship with the new "football relieved" target stocks,
my guess is the football relief cut was implemented to accommodate the longer .357 round that tended to strike non relieved target stocks during extraction.

As shipped 11-05-1953. Dull blue finish, target hammer, and target stocks. Unrelieved type walnut. Tools included and shipped in a 6" K38 box with over label. Appears to be unfired. Big Larry

Oh my. You must be living right.

In the last few years, some newer guys amongst us have told so many people to "check your Target grips for a serial number", many folks have formed the impression that Target grips used to be numbered. I dunno- maybe those guys misread the SCSW, or maybe the SCSW has a confusing section. I've never read most of it.

Fact is, VERY FEW Target grips were ever numbered.
They appear on only two or three models for a VERY SHORT period of time.

Those are-
The earliest Combat Magnums
The earliest 1955-45 Targets
I THINK some of the earliest 44 Magnums- Doc44 will have to confirm that.
The idea appears to be that these 3 "Premium" Models would have Target grips as standard, and they would be fitted to the guns like magna grips were. The Factory quickly realized that since tolerances were held tight on the grooved tang Target guns, and since the wood-to-metal fit was only visible on the backstrap, they were wasting time and money numbering the grips and re-matching them to specific guns.
The practice was abandoned very early on.

In fact, it was abandoned so quickly that MOST early Combat Magnums found with numbered grips don't even have the matching number! They just smacked some grips on them and shipped them.
SOME of the 1955 Targets have grips with matching numbers- they were built before the CMs.

So, you guys quit telling everyone to "check your Target grips for matching number".
You aren't likely to see 10 pairs of numbered TARGET grips in your lifetime.


So, getting back to the OP's gun-
YES, OSS stands for Over Size Stocks.
NO, they should not be numbered
That is a very early Four Screw. I bet it is numbered like a Five Screw- Butt, barrel, yoke, cyl, extractor????? That disappeared early in the Four Screw period, before Model numbers even.


Bright Blue became standard at the very end of the Five Screw era. Late Five Screw guns in all models, including the lowly M&P, are Bright.

That is also one of the earliest Blue Boxes. I think it was preceded only by the same "Gray-Blue" box with NO printing whatsoever that only had the glue on paper labels like your box.

A VERY interesting package.
Any tools or papers?

Good for you.
Great gun.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Very nice Smith&Wesson. I'd have to carry that everywhere here I went!

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Riding, Shooting, and Truth

Lee,

Thanks for the nice commentary regarding my Combat Masterpiece!! I am just tickled pink with the gun. It is in really good shape, and as someone said, probably kept warm and dry for the last 60 years. I am sometimes amazed at how nice condition non-gun folks can keep their guns in without any special care. Just clean them a little, and stick them on a shelf in the bedroom closet, and take them down 60 years later, and there we are!!

I pulled out the CM and took some quick pics of the cylinder, barrel and yoke, and it appears that none of them are numbered. ..









Also, no tools and no papers, other than this scrap of "Nox Rust Vapor Wrapper", and a scrap of cloth.



Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Les,

The back of the extractor will be numbered. That lasted until ~1980 – New style extractor star, serial # no longer stamped on it.

DECREASING SERIAL # LOCATIONS: The number of serial # locations or if model # is stamped on a particular S&W Hand Ejector has more to do with where it was in the production/assembly stages when change orders were issued, therefore as we've learned to expect with S&W, there are great variances and exceptions galore.

Officially, on May 1, 1957 S&W eliminated the Soft Fitting Operation: So it generally corresponds with model numbers ordered June 12, 1957. It was no longer necessary to routinely stamp the serial number on the barrel, cylinder & yoke arm rear surface and show up unstamped over a transition period. So guns in process or in inventory as of 5/1/57 can still have more than 3 and up to 6 locations, and guns shipped after this time may have some of the former number locations because assembly was done over time and as inventory from the old process was used up.

The 6 serial # locations were down to only 3 left on the majority of models (but not all) from c. late 1957 to 1959 which are:

1. Butt

2. Extractor star - backside

3. Right stock – backside (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required.)

ASSEMBLY (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the ‘yoke cut’ on frame (accompanied with a stamped inspector letter) opposite the yoke near the hinge, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and early post war period. Once the gun is shipped, the only use for the assembly is to confirm the three parts it's stamped on are original.

In 1957 the assembly # in the yoke cut of the frame was relocated to the left side of grip frame after model #s were assigned and the serial # was eventually added in the ‘yoke cut’ where the assembly #, now moved to the left side of the grip frame, used to be. You know they are assembly (factory work) #s because of those 3 locations that always match on guns that are original, and that’s the only usefulness for them after guns leave the factory; still used to this day, long after serial number locations decreased.

MODEL NUMBER STAMPING began eventually, sometimes months after being ordered June 12, 1957, but the serial number was not yet stamped in the ‘yoke cut’ of the frame.

YOKE CUT STAMPING of the assembly # and serial # changes after Model # stamping got more confusing. When Model Number stamping began some months after being ordered June 12, 1957, the serial number was not yet stamped in the frame ‘yoke cut’ on the frame side of the yoke hinge. But in the l958-1959 time period as the use of target grips became more common and if the revolver was ordered with or was standard with target stocks which covered the butt serial #, the serial number is also stamped in the yoke cut of the frame. The assembly number would also be in this area as it was stamped on the gun long before the revolver was serial numbered.

Then soon after, all models have the serial # stamped on the frame in the 'yoke cut', except on the smaller frames at first where it just didn't fit well. So eventually after the serial # was stamped on the frame in the ‘yoke cut’, the frame assembly # from the 'yoke cut' was moved to the left side of the grip frame. The 3 assembly # locations, on yoke, left side of grip frame and backside of side plate remain to this day. However, the post 1959-60 yoke cut serial # location on these later guns is the reason for many pre 1957 guns to be incorrectly registered by the useless assembly (work) # on the frame in the yoke cut.

Therefore by about the end of 1959, serial # locations went up to 4:

1. Butt

2. Frame in yoke cut

3. Extractor star until ~ 1980 when the new extractor star shape was introduced.

4. Back of right stock, until ~ 1979 when no longer hand fitted, (except most post war target grips because individual fitting not required).

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Jim
S&WCA #819

A few stocks for the earliest Combat Magnums and 1955 45 Targets are numbered, but at Lee stated above, they are often placed on revolvers with a different serial number. Stocks for the 44 Magnum were never numbered unless they were for an engraved revolver and then I have only seen one pair that was numbered.

Also, I have a question regarding bright blue finish, namely, if this finish became standard in the mid-50s, why do all the All Model Circulars and catalogs still list S&W Blue as the only available finish for most of S&W's models (I only checked up through 1970). I know bright blue and nickel were available as uncataloged options at extra cost for nearly all models except the Highway Patrolman.

Bill

Les what a beautiful CM. It's only 1 month older than I am!
Also a lot of great information in this thread.
Les...You really need a Trifecta so please go back and buy that Python. It's only money and you can't take it with you...

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Les, That is a low number for a Four Screw.
That is a VERY low number for unnumbered parts.

Bill,
S&W was not great about updating catalogs sometimes. You are correct- "S&W Blue" meant the satin blue when satin blue was standard. When they transitioned into bright blue for all models, "S&W Blue" meant bright blue.
Look at it this way- "S&W Blue" means "Standard".
I notice that the earlier AMCs do not show the "Bright Blue" option.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Les,

You should get a ship date from Roy.

I believe you will find that your CM was a late shipper for its serial #. It's not unheard of to find early frames, i.e., with 4 screws and low #s, but with later features like un-numbered parts assembled and shipped well after we would think they should have been.

I noticed your target hammer has the very early thin hammer spur.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

CONGRATULATIONS AND BEST WISHES, Les. BOTH OF THOSE REVOLVERS ARE BEAUTIFUL.....

FORTUNATELY, MURPHY'S LAW DID NOT COME INTO PLAY, AND YOU HAD THE FUNDS TO SWING BOTH DEALS AT THE SAME TIME......

I OWN NEITHER OF THOSE REVOLVERS, BUT EACH OF THEM IS A FAVORITE OF MINE. WITH MY LUCK, MY OPPORTUNITY TO BUY THEM WOULD HAVE COME AT A TIME WHEN I WAS DEAD BROKE.......

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Jim, Roy already gave me the ship date, I posted It back in #31...December 1956. I do plan to get a letter on this one. And I sure thank all of the folks who have provided so much technical data on the gun, and contributed to my education!!!

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Sorry Les,

I can't remember what I've read or in which thread any more!

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Yeah....I know the feeling!! And it sometimes applies to people who come up to me and say "Hey, Les...Remamber me?"..... and I'm thinking ..like .."Who the heck is this??"

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064