Disqualify it as a C&R item? I know the ATF is picky about alterations but is this enough?

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No life story has happy end.

I really doubt your average BATF-E agent would even know the difference or care about it.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Those minor modifications were generally done more than 50 years ago when the .455's were surp'd, so you would have a pretty good argument that it's a c&r regardless. My only .455 is still in it's original chambering but I have a spare .45acp cylinder that fits for cheap shooting fun.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Have you any indication that it does disqualify it?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

This ^^^^^^^

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Randy

ALTERATION OF A C&R FIREARM DOES NOT CHANGE ITS STATUS--- ACCORDING TO FAQs, IN THE BATF'S C&R REGS......

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I would like to see that One Eye Joe. It has always been my understanding that ANY modification disqualifies it. A big online dealer needed a dealer to receive my Colt with the barrel cut down. Sporter stock on a military rifle disqualifies it. I believe you are mistaken. Can you direct me to where it says modifications are allowed because that is contrary to everything I have heard, read and experienced.

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No life story has happy end.

I decided to attempt looking up info myself. Joe- check out section 3, paragraph 2:

What firearms are considered to be curio and relic firearms?

Curio and relic firearms are defined as firearms which are of special interest to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as a curio or relic, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(1) Firearms manufactured at least 50 years prior the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(2) Firearms certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

(3) Firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, or bizarre or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

ATF has recognized only complete, assembled firearms as curios or relics. ATF’s classification of surplus military firearms as curios or relics has extended only to those firearms in their original military configuration. Frames or receivers of curios or relics are not generally recognized as curios or relics.

Collectors wishing to obtain a determination whether a particular firearm qualifies for classification as a curio or relic may submit a written request for a determination to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch. ATF’s classifications of curios and relics firearms are published in ATF Publication 5300.11.

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No life story has happy end.

More...note paragraph 6. Must be in original configuration. I think altering the chamber(s) for different ammo would be considered no longer in original configuration. Certainly they may never know about it, but it would be technically disqualified. A strict interpretation (does the ATF do any other sort of interpretation?) means any modification would be disallowed.

Should have just searched for myself in the first place.


Curios & Relics

A regulation implementing Federal firearms laws, 27 CFR §478.11, defines Curio or Relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;

Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.

Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA. If your C&R item is an NFA firearm (e.g., Winchester Trappers) and you desire removal from the NFA status, you must submit it to FATD for evaluation and a formal classification.

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No life story has happy end.

From the C&R Section of BATF rules: Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. Therefore, ATF does not generally list firearms in the C&R publication by virtue of their age. However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories (b) or (c) above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.

As for altering an original 455, please don't. There are few enough left in original caliber and you will have no problems finding one already altered for 45 Colt. Sell yours and buy one already converted.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I think that I have seen that BATFE has clarified exactly what the term "...in its original configuration" means to them but I don't know the source. As in most areas of law, precise definitions of regulatory terminology are essential if prosecution becomes necessary, and "original configuration" can certainly mean different things to different people. I do know that "sporterization" (in the usual sense) of an old military rifle for sure takes it out of the C&R category, but alterations such as refinishing or repairing the stock or rebluing or replacement of some metal parts probably does not. How that might apply to a military firearm which was altered more than 50 years ago would certainly require some interpretation as to the precise meaning and intent of "original configuration." Lawyers love to argue over such legal points.