Hi, just came across a mint a brazilian 1937 S&W .45 in its original box , cleaning rod included. It appears unfired or if so very little. The gun is tight and the box seems to be original, it is blue and marked S&W army revolver or something like that on the label On the inside there are factory intructions/information printed. Serial is 170XXX ,probably from a 1946 contract.
Any idea of the value of a package like that in the US ?
Thanks, Regards, Ray

Can you post pictures? Is the serial number written on the bottom of thee box? I don't think blue boxes were used until the late '50s-early '60s.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Gil, the SCSW4th says a blue picture box was used from 1933-41 and a few after the war for the .38-44 and Outdoorsmans. I suppose it could be used for the .45 DA Army. I've never seen a picture of one except in the SCSW.


Ray, can you post some pictures? The box itself may be very valuable.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Yeah, I forgot about the picture boxes. I has a brain f., uh fade, yeah, fade.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

No chance it was shipped to Brazil in that box ?
How were those guns delivered in such government contracts ?
Thanks, regards, Ray

Pictures Raymundo...We love pictures...You could really have something there, all the way around and backwards.

I believe they were shipped in wooden crates, with each revolver cradled in its own slot. But Roy Jinks could probably give a more authoritative answer to this.

Unlikely that each gun was boxed like the ones sent to a gun store. More likely that some previous owner just stuck it in a spare box he had, possibly intending to enhance the perceived value and hence the sale price. But people will pay good money for vintage packaging (note that I resisted saying "old boxes" ) so you may find a lot of folks would be willing to buy the box separately.

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You're shy a few manners.

I found a pic just the one I saw today at the seller´s house.
Regards, Ray

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By the way how the original cleaning rod looks like?
I was between a Ruger Blackhawk new model in .357 and that SW 17.The guy is selling both and asking for the SW about half the price of the Ruger.I think I´ll close the deal with him over the SW.The piece is in fantastic shape.
Regards, Ray

Ray,

That's quite a find, especially if box is numbered and matching the gun #.

Please tell us more about it:

Is it for sale? If so what's the asking price?

Are you considering acquisition?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I’m no expert but it looks refinished to me. The side plate seam looks rounded an the crest and roll mark thin and uneven.

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I told you not to use Lifebuoy

No I think the box is not numbered to the gun.It´for sale at about 900 dollars.
I guess it´s a bit pricey but folks, this is Brazil and pieces like these don´t come by easily.There used to be around here some army auctions and this gun was bought at one of them back in the 90´s.It still has the wraping paper in the box.
I think I´ll buy it, after all this gun is part of my Country´s history.

Regards, Ray

No ACORN that´s not the gun, just a pic I found in the Web that showed the box.
The gun I´m negotiating is in very good state and original, but I don´t have its pics.
Regards, Ray

I'm sorry, I misunderstood

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I told you not to use Lifebuoy

Here´s the baby. Not so schooled in old SWs like some experts around here, but it looks little used and not refinished. It came down here in 1946.
Chime in please, regards, Ray

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That is beautiful and worth ever bit of $900 U.S. dollars, everything looks proper to me, but I ain't no expert. That could be an absolute gem if everything matches up. The Brazilians are favorites of mine, mainly because they can be found a good deal cheaper than the Model of 1917's. I like the finish on original Brazilians like the one pictured, nice piece...I'd be on that like a duck on a junebug.
Thanks for the pictures...Good Luck!

Very very very nice. I'd be happy if I was you. Given it all functions properly.

Yes, it appears to be in good working order. I couldn´t cock it repeatedly but when I did the cylinder locked tight without any noticeable play.
The serial # appears on the butt, under the barrel and in the cylinder.
Regards, Ray

Very nice find; and as you said, part of your country's history.

I would certainly grab it and run.

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Oh well, what the hell.

That's a beautiful gun, I have a Brazilian that is no where near as nice as yours. And by the way congrats on the election of your new pro gun president.

IMHO, ITS A BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF OF YOUR HISTORY. I WOULD NOT LET IT SLIP THROUGH MY FINGERS, IF I WERE YOU, NO MATTER WHAT THE "EXPERTS" SAY ABOUT ITS VALUE.....

YOU MAY NEVER SEE ANOTHER FOR SALE, AND MISSING OUT ON THIS ONE, MAY HAUNT YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.....

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Is the lettering (instructions) in the box lid in Spanish or in Portuguese? I can't see it clearly.

I've seen lids marked in Spanish, but never in Portuguese. But I've never before seen a box supposedly sent to Brazil.

I know that Brazilian troops fought in Italy in WW II on the Allied side, and they also had P-47 fighters.

I saw a post on the Net that claimed that the revolvers were issued to enlisted men. Officers had Colt .45 automatics.

Must you hold this gun under an expensive collectors' license? Can you shoot it? Is .45 ACP ammo sold there?

I've read that civilians, including most police, cannot own revolvers of over .38 Special power, or autos more potent than .380 ACP. Collectors can get a license to possess, but not carry or shoot larger calibers. ??

Can handguns be carried at all, or are they restricted to the home?

I have the impression that your neighbor to the South, Argentina, is much more gun friendly.

I think you told me once that hunting in Brazil is almost non existent, save for Indios in the jungles. ?? Maybe some game in Rio Grande do Sul state?

Hi Texas here are the answers to your queries, and thanks to all members for their input, Regards, Ray

Is the lettering (instructions) in the box lid in Spanish or in Portuguese? I can't see it clearly.

They are written in English and Spanish.

I've seen lids marked in Spanish, but never in Portuguese. But I've never before seen a box supposedly sent to Brazil.

They are not written in Portuguese and I think it was a standard procedure for imports to have the lids marked in English and Spanish.I once had a Colt Police Positive whose box was also written in English and Spanish.

I know that Brazilian troops fought in Italy in WW II on the Allied side, and they also had P-47 fighters.

Yeah that´true they fought under Gen. Mark Clark 5th Army.

I saw a post on the Net that claimed that the revolvers were issued to enlisted men. Officers had Colt .45 automatics.

I think that is also true.

Must you hold this gun under an expensive collectors' license? Can you shoot it? Is .45 ACP ammo sold there?

Yes I hold an Army collector license , and after I have the papers I´ll be able to get another license to carry it , unloaded of course, to shoot it. .45 ammo is not sold here.
Í used to reload for the .38 SPL and .45 ACP but had to part with the press and dies and now I´ll have to buy them again.

I've read that civilians, including most police, cannot own revolvers of over .38 Special power, or autos more potent than .380 ACP. Collectors can get a license to possess, but not carry or shoot larger calibers. ??

Well, collectors are able to possess anything they want but to shoot their pieces, 45 included, they must be member of a shooting club.
To carry firearms of any caliber is a no-no down here, but police appears to have chosen the .40 SW as their primary caliber

Can handguns be carried at all, or are they restricted to the home?

See above, only to have them in home.

I have the impression that your neighbor to the South, Argentina, is much more gun friendly.

I guess it is, but I don´t know their laws regarding the issue. But I bet carrying a loaded handgun for personal defense is also against the law there.

I think you told me once that hunting in Brazil is almost non existent, save for Indios in the jungles. ?? Maybe some game in Rio Grande do Sul state?

Brazil maybe the only county inthe world that have a ban on hunting of native species.
Here the eco freaks run amok and are turbocharged !!
I guess in Rio Grande do Sul the hunting is allowed but I´m not sure.


I hope with the new President things will improve, lets pray

Ray-

Thanks. But I think Australia also bans hunting of native species, including dangerous crocodiles, which are no longer endangered.
But I believe they can shoot imported species, like rabbits and water buffalo.

South Africa bans harming white sharks, if a video I saw is valid.

Some of this greenie stuff is okay, but if they ban killing animals attacking humans, it's going too far, I think.

But here they banned the hunting of everything, including , mind you, wild pigeons, armadillos and several other species, none of them under danger of extintion.The impression I have is that most brazilian law makers want to appear progressive , caring, sensible, before the eyes of international busybodies, mainly the UN. The laws regarding the wildlife protection via hunting ban and the disarmament law in effect are but two of their offsprings that newly elected President will have to tackle, I hope.
Since the big disarmament law went in effect some fourteen years ago, the crime level soared, as people are unable to fight back criminals.Sorry for the rant, regards, Ray

The first picture in posting Nr 15 shows an unusual full moon clip. Is that version common?

I am happy for you and hope you make the acquisition and obtain loading tools. Keep us posted...........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Hi folks, I never saw a moon clip like this one before, but it´s included in the deal, as is the cleaning rod, that I wonder if it´s original.
I made a down payment to the seller and next week I will pay the balance.
Now I´ll have to wait for the transfer to my name, and start to think about a budget reloading kit. I was thinking about a Lee Loader ! It´s slow but will get the job done, and I´m in no hurry.
Regards, Ray

Not really. Most of the full moon clips I have seen and used the cartridges clip in from the outside, not from the inside, as seen in post # 15.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I have seen full moon clips made by welding (?) two 1/2 moons together. Perhaps this is the Brazilian answer to the full moon question.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Ray, that cleaning rod looks an awful lot like the ones issued during WW I (and early II perhaps) in the squad cleaning kits for the Colt 1911. It would be perfectly reasonable to assume that it was provided contemporaneously with the gun or added any time after. They would have certainly been available either way. Congrats on a significant find!

Froggie

Thanks Froggie, still waiting the transfer to go through
Regards, Ray

nice Brazilian - the rod appears to be too long to fit in 1911 squad box - looks more like the rods for victory model .38 S+W lend lease models -

Man I'd give my left nutter butter to find a nice Brazilian example like that at a decent price here in the U.S.. (Most found here are rather worn/pitted/refinished/mismatched grips examples.)

Congrats and more overall pics please of all the serial numbers, stamps, etc!!!!!! (Especially if the r/h grip is matching.)

More pics man, gotta have more pics!

Thanks for sharing,
Dale

Pics as soon as I have it in my hands, thanks for the comments, regards, Ray

I have one similar to the OPs and it came with a copy of a 1974 letter from Roy that might help with the dated these were made. Difference shows up in how the slot is shaped and the fact that mine is copper plated steel.

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	S&W Cleaning Rod Factory Letter.jpg (67.7 KB, 49 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Ray, that is a very interesting find.
Isn't that box maroon in color? If original to the gun, the serial number should be on the bottom.
I'm afraid I've never heard any mention of cleaning rods for the Brazilian contracts. I don't doubt that there could have been some, but we just don't know. Since there were about 37,000 Brazilian guns in total in both orders, it would seem like a lot of those rods should be in Brazil. Have you ever seen another?


Conversely, the WW II rods with the copper color shown by Gary just above are very common. I've seen many dozens of Boxes of 10 that were packaged during WW II. I'm quite certain that the British received thousands of them.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

just checked my S&W rods like the one pictured + in letter - they are much too long to fit in either my WWi or WWII 1911 squad kits - all of mine are also copper plated -

Thanks Gary my rod seems also to be copper plated, just like yours and that Mr. Jinks letter solves the puzzle.The Army 1917 .45 was one of the models shipped with them.
And Lee, the box indeed seems to be maroon, the pic angle do not allow full view of the cover but I think it is.I don´t remember seeing the serial # on the box bottom but sure enough someone here wrote the serial # with a pen on the lid. Here in Brazil we write the numeral 7 with a dash across
No I have never seen another rod.
One last question : Do you think a letter from SW( Roy Jinks) would clarify any details on this gun besides shippment where and when ?

Thanks and regards to all, Ray

I noticed Lee's comment that seems to contradict Roy's letter stating those rods were used in WWII, not WWI? In the letter, Roy states that production of those rode ceased when the machinery gave out around 1920. Of course, that did not mean the company might have had tens of thousands of them in inventory?? Roy had sent me a note that said these cleaning rods were also supplied to England for WWI use with their 455s.

If inventory was huge, some could have found their way to Brazil, since there were apparently large lots found in the factory well after both world wars. Maybe Lee will comment on Roy's letter?

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Do you take Apple Pay ?????

UPTDATE

Hi, I received a call today saying that the transfer is now complete.I´ll pick it saturday.
I would like to do some good pics and post them here. Not cell phone pics but pics from a good camera.Can you instruct me about settings, lightning and so on ?
Thanks, Regards, Ray