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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 01-27-2019, 06:47 PM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)  
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

There has been much written in publications and here on the Forum regarding the KCPD Pre-War S&W .357 Magnums. The consensus of opinion on them seems to be that most examples found today are re-blued (one or more times) and show substantial wear. This is not surprising considering they were used in police service from 1939/1940 up until approximately 1957 when the KCPD replaced them with the 4” Heavy Barrel K-38 Masterpiece.

I was most fortunate a few years ago to have acquired a nice example of a KCPD Pre-War Magnum which retains its original factory blue finish, original configuration, and original Magna grips with matching serial number. The gun, pictured below, which was in the 9/7/1939 shipment of 250 revolvers, rates approximately 95%. All of the Magnums in this shipment were in the same configuration with blue finishes, 4” barrels, Baughman Quick Draw front sights on King ramp bases, square notch rear sights, hump-back hammers and Magna stocks. All of the 200 Magnums in the 1/30/1940 shipment were in the same configuration (except most were shipped with standard hammers), and all of the 26 Magnums in the 7/3/1940 shipment were in the same configuration (except with standard hammers), except two were shipped with 3.5” barrels and one was shipped with a 6.5” barrel.




All of the discussion regarding most of these guns being refinished, plus the fact that I was able to find one in original condition on a GB auction got me to wondering just what the true statistics are regarding how many of these have been refinished. The table I have presented below represents all of the finish condition data of the KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums (known extant revolvers) that I have been able to extract from searches of threads and the SWCA Database here on the Forum, or in other Internet searches. Note there are many additional KCPD Pre-War Magnum serial numbers listed in the Forum SWCA Database, but it is not known if they are extant. I have also been able to add some serial numbers based on guns I have seen listed in various auctions. The table is in 3 sections in serial number order sorted by the three shipment dates to the KCPD in 1939/1940. Thus far I have been able to find references to 61* known extant examples, or approximately 12.8% of the total population of 476 KCPD Magnums.

For any of you that have first hand finish condition information or corrections on any of the guns listed below, or on any additional KCPD Magnums not listed, I encourage you to send me the information and I will add it to the survey. Pictures, as you know, are always welcome on this Forum!

Please PM me with your updates or just add your update in a post below in this thread. I will update the survey table accordingly. Thank you.


9/7/1939 Shipment (250 Magnums - all 4” blue)

SER#/REG# FINISH CONDITION


1. 59056/4989 - refinished (nickel) (pictured in post 48 below)

2. 59062/4990 - refinished (pictured in post #35 below)

3. 59363/UNK - refinished

4. 59382/5004 - refinished (pictured in post #19 & #20 below)

5. 59384/5008 - original finish @ 95% with matching grips (pictured in post #1 above)

6. 59470/5101 - refinished

7. 59610/5044 - refinished

8. 59620/UNK - refinished

9. 59622/5046 - refinished (pictured in post 42 below)

10. 59624/5001 - refinished

11. 59638/5040 - refinished

12. 59643/UNK - refinished/cannibalized

13. 59649/5072 - refinished

14. 59654/5036 - refinished (nickel) (pictured in post #38 below)

15. 59661/5102 - refinished (pictured in post #56 below)

16. 59676/5066 - refinished (previously nickel - now blue) (barrel now 3.5”) (pictured in post #72 and pictured/discussed in post #76 below)

17. 59694/5088 - refinished

18. 59699/5075 - refinished (pictured in post #61 below)

19. 596XX/5112 - refinished

20. 59700/5115 - refinished (pictured in post #37 below)

21. 59702/5074 - refinished

22. 59707/5125 - refinished (pictured in post #71 below)

23. 59708/5105 - original finish @ 95% with King-like hammer

24. 59712/5124 - refinished

25. 59738/5143 - refinished (pictured on pages 88 & 89 in the book “Magnum” by Timothy J. Mullin)

26. 59740/5141 - refinished (pictured in post #34 below)

27. 59742/5137 - refinished (pictured in post #25 below)

28. 59749/5159 - original finish @ 95% w/replaced grips (pictured in post #24, #27, and #28 below)

29. 59762/5169 - refinished

30. 59763/5171 - refinished (partially pictured in post #39 below)

31. 59765/5177 - refinished (pictured in post #45 below)

32. 59797/5209 - refinished (pictured in post #40 below)

33. 59799/5208 - refinished

34. 59868/5220 - refinished

35. 59886/5202 - refinished

36. 598XX/5235 - refinished


1/30/1940 Shipment (200 Magnums - all 4” blue)

SER#/REG# FINISH CONDITION


37. 60780/NRM - refinished

38. 60817/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #41 below)

39. 60827/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #44 below)

40. 60839/NRM - refinished (nickel)

41. 60857/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #32 below)

42. 60858/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #47 below)

43. 60865/NRM - refinished (pictured in post 59 below)

44. 60880/NRM - refinished (pictured in post 70 below)

45. 60882/NRM - refinished (pictured in post 66 below)

46. 60889/NRM - refinished (pictured in post 49 below)

47. 60896/NRM - refinished

48. 60899/NRM - original finish @ 80% w/replaced grips (pictured in post #36 below)

49. 60904/NRM - refinished

50. 60907/NRM - refinished

51. 60914/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #60 below)

52. 60918/NRM - refinished

53. 60927/NRM - refinished/restored (pictured in posts #30, 77, and 78 below)

54. 60930/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #33 below)

55. 61052/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #31 below)

56. 61067/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #23 below)


7/3/1940 Shipment (26 Magnums: 23 - 4”, 2 - 3.5”, 1 - 6.5”, all blue)

SER#/REG# FINISH CONDITION


57. 61632/NRM - (3.5”) original finish @ 99+% with matching grips (pictured in post #21 below)

58. 61936/NRM - refinished

59. 61941/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #9 and #29 below)

60. 61952/NRM - refinished (pictured in post #55 below)

61. 61959/NRM - original finish @ 85% w/replaced grips, front sight, and rear sight blade (pictured in post #22 below)


*Summary Updated as of 3/21/2021: 61 total known extant examples (12.8% of the total population of 476)
6 original finish (9.8%)
55 refinished (90.2%)

(Note: Although not part of this survey, the KCPD also placed an order for .357 Magnums that were shipped on December 17, 1936. It was for 6 Magnums, 5 were with 5 inch barrels and McGivern gold bead front sights; these units were serial# 49805 Reg# 1742; serial# 49810 Reg# 1743; serial# 49822 Reg# 1741; serial# 50053 Reg# 1739; serial# 50076 Reg# 1740, and 1 with a 6 inch barrel and McGivern gold bead front sight serial# 49806 Reg# 1744. This early order for 6 Magnums may have eventually led to the later larger orders listed above. Two of these revolvers have surfaced, one on GI and one on this Forum. The one previously listed and sold on GI is serial# 50053 Reg# 1739 and is pictured and described in post# 50 below. The one that surfaced on this Forum is serial# 50076 Reg# 1740 and is pictured and described in post# 51 below).
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Old 01-27-2019, 07:34 PM
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# 59742/5137 is a refinished gun

RIA -- May 2017-- Lot # 3268
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:04 AM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)  
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

60896/NRM - refinished (added per PM)
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:30 AM
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Having lived in the KCMO area from birth until my government funded trip senior trip to SEA I find this post very interesting. Guess I'll put one of these on my list.
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:51 AM
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So out of 476 guns shipped "we"* can only account for 37 about 8%. I would have expected a higher percentage given the number of posts over the years.


*We= forum members.

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Old 01-28-2019, 09:08 AM
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So out of 476 guns shipped "we"* can only account for 37 about 8%. I would have expected a higher percentage given the number of posts over the years.


*We= forum members.


Yes, some guns have been posted multiple times. I’m hoping with this thread “we”* can drive that percentage higher.
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lestert357 View Post
Yes, some guns have been posted multiple times.
I think that happens a lot here giving us a distorted impression of numbers that have been built and/or survived. I would have guessed that the KC guns numbered close to 1000 or more... and almost everyone, but me, had one!

Recent threads on Triple locks also surprised me as to numbers and how many said they'd never even seen one.

Also the Performance Center guns from thee 90s.... never knew so few were built.... often times less than 200 in a run.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:41 AM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)  
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

60930/NRM - refinished (added per PM)
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:45 PM
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61941 NRM 4" shipped to KCPD July 3, 1940 factory refinished 1947.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:14 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

59620/UNK - refinished (added per Internet search)
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:33 PM
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61052/NRM - refinished (added per PM)
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:09 PM
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Smile I own S#59702

I bought the gun quite a few yrs. back as one in a group/package/clump of guns at a Rock Island Auction. The gun has truly been rode hard, put away wet, refinished 1944 at S&W and possibly additional refins along its life. At one time the gun appears to have been smoothed by a surface grinder. Very little finish remains. The registration number is 5074.

I bought it for sentimental reasons and to rescue it from further abuse. I was considering having it restored by David Chicoine when that entity dissolved. I must take it to the range sometime to see how it shoots.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:49 PM
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61952/NRM - refinished (added per PM)


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Old 01-30-2019, 07:45 PM
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Very good work. Thanks for a very interesting thread. I suspect a lot more NRM owners will show up here. Gotta be a lot more out there in our community. Dave
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:52 AM
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You already have my KCPD gun. I had it restored by David Chicoine, he did the work between 2008-10. It was part of the January 30th 1940 shipment, so Happy Birthday to my gun. Shipped 78 years ago today.

Dave called me after he received the gun and said, "Wow, it looks just like you described." He was amused and said, most people try and paint a nicer picture of the gun to get a lower estimate.

Dave send me a letter describing his work, it was returned to "factory restored" condition perfectly. I still really like this revolver and look forward to hearing about more survivors.
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:02 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

598XX/5235 - refinished (added per archived Forum thread)
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:58 AM
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60827/NRM - refinished (updated per PM)
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:43 AM
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Non Reg 60914 shipped on 1/30/40 was factory refinished 5/47 and appears to have been returned with early post war magnas.
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:08 PM
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KC Magnum registration number 5004
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:19 PM
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KC Magnum registration number 5004

KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)-img_1517-jpg
Wow!!! That is a beauty!
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:25 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

61632/NRM - (3.5”) original finish @ 99+% with matching grips


Photo Credit - Rock Island Auction
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:47 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

61959/NRM - original finish @ 85% w/replaced grips, front sight, and rear sight blade (sorry, this is the only picture I could find of this gun which I owned for a short while)
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:53 PM
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61067/NRM - refinished
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:00 PM
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59749/5159 - original finish @ 95% w/replaced grips
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:27 PM
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59742/5137 - refinished
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:40 PM
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60857 was refinished by factory. I own this one. PM sent.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:16 PM
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Terry,

RM #5159 now wears grips from another KC gun in the same shipment - only a few numbers off of my gun. They were refurbished by another Forum member.

Jerry
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j38 View Post
Terry,



RM #5159 now wears grips from another KC gun in the same shipment - only a few numbers off of my gun. They were refurbished by another Forum member.



Jerry


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Old 02-08-2019, 06:37 AM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRG View Post
61941 NRM 4" shipped to KCPD July 3, 1940 factory refinished 1947.
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Old 02-08-2019, 08:35 AM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

60927/NRM - refinished


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Old 02-08-2019, 08:57 AM
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61052/NRM - refinished
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:44 AM
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60857/NRM - refinished
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:07 AM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

60930/NRM - refinished

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Old 02-08-2019, 04:19 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

59740/5141 - refinished


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Old 02-08-2019, 05:34 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

59062/4990 - refinished

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Old 02-08-2019, 07:54 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

60899/NRM - original finish @ 80% w/replaced grips




Photo Credits - GunBroker.com - woodlawn boys
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:59 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

59700/5115 - refinished


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Old 02-08-2019, 10:05 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

59654/5036 - refinished (nickel)

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Old 02-09-2019, 12:11 PM
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59763/5171 - refinished



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Old 02-09-2019, 03:09 PM
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59797/5209 - refinished

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Old 02-09-2019, 04:55 PM
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60817/NRM - refinished

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Old 02-14-2019, 07:05 PM
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59622/5046 - refinished

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Old 02-18-2019, 06:04 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

Today I received new (and I think important) information from Mr. Jinks regarding the 9/7/1939 shipment of 250 Magnums to the KCPD. When I got my factory letter on my Reg #5008 it did not list the Hump Back hammer as part of the original configuration. That surprised me because other than that the gun appeared to be completely original as shipped from the factory including configuration, finish, and grips. In my quest to try to understand this I noticed in archived Forum threads that this Hump Back hammer issue had been an open question for a long time as there are many KCPD Magnums that have Hump Back hammers today but did not letter as such. As this thread continued to evolve I started to notice what seemed to be a trend in the data, and that was that most of the KCPD Magnums with a Hump Back hammer were from the 9/7/1939 shipment of 250 guns. In fact 8 of the 10 guns from this particular shipment that are pictured in this thread have a Hump Back hammer as does the gun pictured in the book “Magnum” which is also from this 9/7/1939 shipment. Over the last couple of days I have been discussing this issue in some detail with Mr. Jinks in the ”SWCA - Questions for Roy Jinks” area of the Forum. Today I received the following response from Mr. Jinks (posted below with his permission) that I believe finally resolves this Hump Back hammer issue at least with regards to the 250 guns that were in the 9/7/1939 shipment:

“Terry, you are correct, with your help I dug a little deeper and found the original order and the original order called for all 250 units to be equipped with the hump back hammers. The problem was the billing invoice did not list the hump back hammers as there was no extra charge for them it just listed the barrel length, finish, type of sight, Magna grips, and the reg. numbers. However, in the original order it did request the Hump back hammer. So this would add another bunch of hump back hammers to the total. Thanks for the help. Roy”

A copy of the original order that Mr. Jinks found is pictured below. Also pictured is the updated/corrected page 2 of the factory letter that Mr. Jinks provided to me for my Reg# 5008:




So, if your KCPD Magnum was in the 9/7/1939 shipment of 250 guns, it originally shipped from the factory with a Hump Back hammer!
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:24 PM
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60827/NRM - refinished

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Old 03-14-2019, 07:51 PM
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59765/5177 - refinished
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:34 PM
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wow, amazing guns. I want one!!!!!
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:57 PM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

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Old 04-17-2019, 06:00 AM
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Default KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)

59056/4989 - refinished (nickel)
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:04 AM
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:07 AM
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KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey) KCPD Pre-War .357 Magnums Purchased During 1939/1940 (Finish Condition - A Survey)  
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Location: Old Dominion
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Serial# 50053 Reg# 1739 - original finish @ 95% with matching grips, from the first shipment of RM’s to the KCPD on December 17, 1936. Please see the note at the bottom of post# 1 above for further information on these RM’s shipped to the KCPD in 1936.

Photo credit Gunsinternational.com
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